20 replies to this topic

[SBriand]

Sadly don't have the hand history on this computer but I wanted to discuss this before I forgot the details.

The new $2.25 180 man SNG at Full Tilt.

Down to 17 (Top 18 pay, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are the ones to play for)

I was card dead for awhile. Sitting on 6300 UTG. Blinds are 300/600 75 ante (full table of 9)M=4 Blinds increase in about 3 minutes.

I get dealt

Fold, push, call, or raise and if raise how much?

[Yahkin]

Shove.

[monix]

What is your standing, and where are the shorties relative you to?

If this was bubble time I'd push, but I tend to tighten up dramatically after the bubble bursts as all the people on fumes start busting out...

[SBriand]

What is your standing, and where are the shorties relative you to?

If this was bubble time I'd push, but I tend to tighten up dramatically after the bubble bursts as all the people on fumes start busting out...

I am about 15th I think. Shorties really all around, BB was the chip leader everyone else was 6-15K.

[monix]

I am about 15th I think. Shorties really all around, BB was the chip leader everyone else was 6-15K.

I'd push in this situation.

[rog]

I would tend to fold this. You're not desperate, and you have K high OOP at a full table.

[monix]

I would tend to fold this. You're not desperate, and you have K high OOP at a full table.

Huh? An M of 4 and about to go into the blinds is not desperate? KQs is a very good hand in this situation, with maybe a little fold equity; clear push IMO.

[bdc30]

What is your standing, and where are the shorties relative you to?

If this was bubble time I'd push, but I tend to tighten up dramatically after the bubble bursts as all the people on fumes start busting out...

WE are the people on fumes. Push.

[Gallo]

WE are the people on fumes. Push.

Am I wrong, but doesn't he have an M of 6+? Anyway, I hate this situation as I also have trouble at time knowing what to do in this situation with a good holding and UTG. If you get a call you're more than likely behind. Does anyone condone maybe just calling? Or how about raising either minimum (Ugh, can't believe I just said that) or raising 2.5x? Like I said, I really hate shoving here only becuase it is a full table and you will only likely be called by a hand that can beat you.

[SBriand]

Am I wrong, but doesn't he have an M of 6+? Anyway, I hate this situation as I also have trouble at time knowing what to do in this situation with a good holding and UTG. If you get a call you're more than likely behind. Does anyone condone maybe just calling? Or how about raising either minimum (Ugh, can't believe I just said that) or raising 2.5x? Like I said, I really hate shoving here only becuase it is a full table and you will only likely be called by a hand that can beat you.

I have an M of 4 because of antes.

If I call and get raised then what?

If I raise and get reraised then what?

If I have to fold in those 2 situations then it's back to fold or push pf I think.

But I don't know, that is why I am asking.

If I call and someone in EP has A9 and raises me, then I am put to a decision.

If I push, will the dude with Ax risk 75% or more of his stack to call?

[Gallo]

I have an M of 4 because of antes.

If I call and get raised then what?

If I raise and get reraised then what?

If I have to fold in those 2 situations then it's back to fold or push pf I think.

But I don't know, that is why I am asking.

If I call and someone in EP has A9 and raises me, then I am put to a decision.

If I push, will the dude with Ax risk 75% or more of his stack to call?

Ok, man I must not be up yet, because I keep forgetting stuff that I'm reading. I would shove with an M of 4. But what about if you had an M of 6+? Still shove?

[SBriand]

Ok, man I must not be up yet, because I keep forgetting stuff that I'm reading. I would shove with an M of 4. But what about if you had an M of 6+? Still shove?

I don't think I would. I think I get through the blinds and then try and find a better hand before they got back to me.

[SBriand]

Okay, I shoved.

I figured it was fold or shove. If I raised to 1800 and someone repops me I am pretty much calling. So may as well get it in there. I figured, or hoped, that I would get hands like Ax to lay down and not risk a large portion of their stack.

I did get called by one player who had me covered. He showed AK.

I hit the Q on the turn and that was that. Not a brag post, but I got berated for 20 minutes by all the $2.25 Pro's for making that move. I thought it was a push or shove situation.


I just wanted to get people's opinions so if it was a bad bad move I won't do it again.

[Yahkin]

I don't think I would. I think I get through the blinds and then try and find a better hand before they got back to me.

KQs is about the best hand you are likely going to see in the next circuit IMO. I definately push with an M with 6 or 7 as well. We still have some FE and picking up the blinds increases our stack substantially.

As for who calls, just about any pp and prolly A9+ by the bigger stacks. We are really only in trouble against AK, and QQ+, everything else we have a decent race.

[rog]

Maybe I'm weak/tight, or maybe I'm more comofrtable on the short stack, but I just don't open up my range that wide from UTG at a full table. Perhaps that's a leak. With M=3, I probably shove, but with M=4. I'm probably waiting.

Against the suggested calling range of 22+ and A9+, you have an approximate fold equity of 27%. Can someone pokerstove for me your equity if called heads up by 22+, A9+? We can do the math, and see how it works out.

[monix]

Against the suggested calling range of 22+ and A9+, you have an approximate fold equity of 27%. Can someone pokerstove for me your equity if called heads up by 22+, A9+? We can do the math, and see how it works out.

With your range and FE assumptions, a Push is +ev...

27% + (41.8% * (100%-27%))= 57.5%

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,571,895,072 games 0.093 secs 16,902,097,548 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.767% 40.98% 00.79% 644161944 12376500.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 58.233% 57.45% 00.79% 902980128 12376500.00 { 22+, A9s+, A9o+ }

[rog]

With your range and FE assumptions, a Push is +ev...

27% + (41.8% * (100%-27%))= 57.5%

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,571,895,072 games 0.093 secs 16,902,097,548 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.767% 40.98% 00.79% 644161944 12376500.00 { 44 }
Hand 1: 58.233% 57.45% 00.79% 902980128 12376500.00 { 22+, A9s+, A9o+ }

Wrong hand Monix. This is KQs not 44

[monix]

Wrong hand Monix. This is KQs not 44

Oops...sorry.

Still +ev....

27% + (41.1% * (100%-27%))= 57.0%

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

246,571,776 games 0.031 secs 7,953,928,258 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.466% 41.14% 00.32% 101443320 799771.50 { KcQc }
Hand 1: 58.534% 58.21% 00.32% 143528913 799771.50 { 22+, A9s+, A9o+ }

[rog]

Oops...sorry.

Still +ev....

27% + (41.1% * (100%-27%))= 57.0%

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

246,571,776 games 0.031 secs 7,953,928,258 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.466% 41.14% 00.32% 101443320 799771.50 { KcQc }
Hand 1: 58.534% 58.21% 00.32% 143528913 799771.50 { 22+, A9s+, A9o+ }

Not so fast. It has to be weighted. Let's see...blinds and antes are 1600. Double up is like +6500. Busto is like -6300

.27 (1600) + (.411 * .73 * 6500) + (.58 * .73 * -6300)

432 + 1950 - 2669

-287 Chip EV.

[BeaverStyle]

Okay, I shoved.
I hit the Q on the turn and that was that. Not a brag post, but I got berated for 20 minutes by all the $2.25 Pro's for making that move. I thought it was a push or shove situation.

oxymoron?