Naismith 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I'm sure at some level, this isn't going to work, but for the last few weeks, I've had good results with this. Here's an example from yesterday:Playing 1-2 NL.Weak player opens for 10. Two calls to me. I call. Short stack in the SB goes all in for 48. Initial raiser calls. Two other calls to me. I shove all in.Factors --1 - My stack behind and the stacks behind the other players that have called are big enough to not be priced in.2 - No weak-tight old guy that never raises with AA or KK because "it's stupid to raise without seeing all the cards".3 - Enough dead money in there that you're getting appropriate odds against the short stack's range.4 - My hand has some potential.So far, I've had very good results with this, every time getting it heads up, being laid 5:1. I haven't had one of the other callers call me yet and, really, they almost never should with their action. The short stack doesn't have to have a huge hand to push in this situation and it makes no sense for a big hand to just call that raise before the action gets to you.The negative is that our action in this situation looks more like TT or AQ than it does AA. I'm not sure I'd suggest this against a really observant, thinking player, especially if they're on your immediate right. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 This HAS to be good for metagame as well. Link to post Share on other sites
7s7c 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Playing 1-2 NL. I'm not sure I'd suggest this against a really observant, thinking playerYr in good shape. I like this play especially since you rarely see shorter stacks reload before they bust at this level for some reason. Normally you have tremendous odds and can get HU rather easily against the player playing as if it's a tournament. Link to post Share on other sites
thebottomline 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I like the move, what hand did you have? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I like the move, what hand did you have?A straight, after the turn!I am unwilling to answer this question. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think the play has potential. The only thing is that to any observant player given the action so far, it's almost impossible that you have a big hand here and thus, they should be calling with a much wider range as well. However, from the way you describe the opposition at your tables, I wouldn't think that "observant and thinking" are tags usually applied to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 FWIW, how often does this come up? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think the play has potential. The only thing is that to any observant player given the action so far, it's almost impossible that you have a big hand here and thus, they should be calling with a much wider range as well. However, from the way you describe the opposition at your tables, I wouldn't think that "observant and thinking" are tags usually applied to them.Agreed, and I mentioned that in the OP. The thing is, even if there is a good, observant player, he would almost need to be on your immediate right to call or else you've put a pretty good squeeze on him. Even if he puts you on a move, it would be a difficult call to make with another player or two still to act.The other side of this coin is that it might be worth smooth calling a raise with a big hand when one of the guys still to act has a small stack to get in this exact situation but while actually holding a good hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 FWIW, how often does this come up?It happened twice during yesterday's four hour session. I'd say around once per session is a modest guess. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 1 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I've done this a few times, but I got carried away at one point.A guy in mid position in the late stages of a tourney moves allin for less than 2xbb after being crippled the hand before. Folds to me on the button with J2o. I shove for ~10bb to isolate with 2/1 'calling' odds.The blinds fold but I lose to his A-X.Marginal. At best. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Isn't this the move you used to get you a stack in your WSOP event? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 This HAS to be good for metagame as well.Jay's metagame is AWESOME. Legendary. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Isn't this the move you used to get you a stack in your WSOP event?Yes, never in a cash game before, though.In the tourney, though, I hadn't called an original raise...I was last to act after the UTG all in, which was called in three different spots. Link to post Share on other sites
cwjones14 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Saw Barry G. pull same move last night in Stars tourney. He did it with 10-8s Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 This system is PURE PROFIT!!!!Jay is a genius. A motherf-ckin genius!I made $700 with his brilliant system tonight. You can too!!Just call 1-800-J Fortune tonight and have your credit card ready! Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 This system is PURE PROFIT!!!!Jay is a genius. A motherf-ckin genius!I made $700 with his brilliant system tonight. You can too!!Just call 1-800-J Fortune tonight and have your credit card ready!Sorry about this absurdity, fellow strat posters. I'm not sure what Acid was thinking....It's actually 1-900-J Fortune. $2.99 per minute. Kids, get your parents' permission first. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 It's actually 1-900-J Fortune. $2.99 per minute. Kids, get your parents' permission first.I only played for one hour and made $1700 employing his system. At his bargain basement price of 2.99 per minute, that means that you're paying ONLY $179.40 for an hour of advice worth almost 10 times that amount!You're practically robbing him. Pick up that phone now! Don't wait another minute! Link to post Share on other sites
da_suit 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Sorry about this absurdity, fellow strat posters. I'm not sure what Acid was thinking....It's actually 1-900-J Fortune. $2.99 per minute. Kids, get your parents' permission first.Ok dialing now....1-900-.........wait a tick....how does the phone know whether I want the letter JK or L.... Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I'm assuming this is a play based FOR hands like TT or AQ like it looks? I mean you still have to beat the shover to win the chips anyway so you aren't advocating doing this with all hands that have potential like suited connectors, right?I've run this play a few times in my day. Come to think of it, I seem to always be doing it with TT after I don't feel good about playing a 4 handed pot with TT Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I'm assuming this is a play based FOR hands like TT or AQ like it looks? I mean you still have to beat the shover to win the chips anyway so you aren't advocating doing this with all hands that have potential like suited connectors, right?I've run this play a few times in my day. Come to think of it, I seem to always be doing it with TT after I don't feel good about playing a 4 handed pot with TT THe idea is to do it with any 2 cards. The shover doesn't matter. The idea is to be getting 4-1 or more and you'll have odds against any holding that they have. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 I'm assuming this is a play based FOR hands like TT or AQ like it looks? I mean you still have to beat the shover to win the chips anyway so you aren't advocating doing this with all hands that have potential like suited connectors, right?I've run this play a few times in my day. Come to think of it, I seem to always be doing it with TT after I don't feel good about playing a 4 handed pot with TT Yeah, here's the thing...the range of the all in here is sooooo big that you're getting the odds to go heads up with him with almost any two cards. For instance, the two times I pulled this play out yesterday, the hands were A2 and AJ. After my raise cleared out the riff raff, I was getting 5 or 6:1 as a not-very-big dog.One of the two times, I was actually crippled and I'm still only a 7:3 dog. I won that one, by the way. The small stack is pushing with any cards he wants to play, including hands like T-9 suited. Sure, you'll run into AA every so often, but hell, get AA heads up with your 9-8 getting 5:1 and see what happens. The times you get it all in with JT and find yourself ahead will more than make up for it. Link to post Share on other sites
psujohn 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Its certainly a good play and one that I'd like to have in my bag o' tricks but I can't honestly say I've ever seen the situation come up. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 lol donkaments Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 2 - No weak-tight old guy that never raises with AA or KK because "it's stupid to raise without seeing all the cards".You'll never guess what happened to me last night. Dropped a buy in to an old man who limped in the SMALL BLIND with KK when ALL EIGHT PLAYERS limped to him. Needless to say, his re-raise was totally inexplicable. And yeah, QQ not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Jay's metagame is AWESOME. Legendary.please don't do that, do you know how long it will take to deflate his ego???? Link to post Share on other sites
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