Live Tourney - Shove With Big Draw?

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

Live tourn in Black Hawk Colorado Casino. Stucture is fast, although not as horrible as some up there.Toward the end of level 1, blinds still 25 50, I have about 9 K (Started with 7) 20 minute levels. Villian has about 7 k. Early position limps, villian limps, folds around to me on the button with A7 clubs. I decide to take a stab at the pot and raise to 200. (Maybe should of bet more here)Both blinds and both limpers call. So that worked real well....Flop comes K74, two clubs. Checks around to me on the button, I fire 800. Blinds fold, limper 1 folds, villian raises to 2400. To me he does not look super strong, and based on what I've seen of his play he could have darn near anything. My best guess is a weak king, or maybe he made two pair with a hand like k7 (He'd play it) He could have total air, or a worse flush draw. SO.... what do you think of shoving here? If not, whats the best play?

[Zelphade 0]

I dont think shoving is that bad of a play here. With your read on him u have alot of outs against a weak king. He might fold if he has a weak king or a smaller flush draw. You do have quite a bit of fold equity here. I think i would have shoved and tried to win a huge pot early in the tourney. BTW i recently went to blackhawk when i was visiting colorado for a few weeks. There was snow on the mountains behind the casinos and it was absolutely beautiful!! as for poker goes i got whooped....

[gradin123 0]

Live tourn in Black Hawk Colorado Casino. Stucture is fast, although not as horrible as some up there.Toward the end of level 1, blinds still 25 50, I have about 9 K (Started with 7) 20 minute levels. Villian has about 7 k. Early position limps, villian limps, folds around to me on the button with A7 clubs. I decide to take a stab at the pot and raise to 200. (Maybe should of bet more here)Both blinds and both limpers call. So that worked real well....Flop comes K74, two clubs. Checks around to me on the button, I fire 800. Blinds fold, limper 1 folds, villian raises to 2400. To me he does not look super strong, and based on what I've seen of his play he could have darn near anything. My best guess is a weak king, or maybe he made two pair with a hand like k7 (He'd play it) He could have total air, or a worse flush draw. SO.... what do you think of shoving here? If not, whats the best play?

The blinds are still very small. Lots of play left. You have 1000 chips committed so far and need to call 1600 more. Whether his king is weak or not it is in a coin toss with you and the worst case scenario is he has trip 4's or something in which case you are in really trouble . I would flat call to see one more card. If you whiff on the turn you still can get away from the hand with 6400 chips which is certainly enough to play with. If he is really weak he might even slow down on the turn allowing you to see 2 cards. I think you can pick a way better spot to push with than this at this stage of the tourney

[DrZoidberg 0]

The blinds are still very small. Lots of play left. You have 1000 chips committed so far and need to call 1600 more. Whether his king is weak or not it is in a coin toss with you and the worst case scenario is he has trip 4's or something in which case you are in really trouble . I would flat call to see one more card. If you whiff on the turn you still can get away from the hand with 6400 chips which is certainly enough to play with. If he is really weak he might even slow down on the turn allowing you to see 2 cards. I think you can pick a way better spot to push with than this at this stage of the tourney

+1No reason to gamble here, you can find a better spot.

[Zelphade 0]

After thinking about it again i think shoving is a bad play. This is a deep stack tourney and there is no need to get crazy in the first level. I guess im just too use to internet tournies where u start with no chips. I think i might have just called also. Even if you miss you still have alot of chips to play with and are no where near panic mode. Sorry that my first response was so crappy....

[rogerwilco 0]

After thinking about it again i think shoving is a bad play. This is a deep stack tourney and there is no need to get crazy in the first level. I guess im just too use to internet tournies where u start with no chips. I think i might have just called also. Even if you miss you still have alot of chips to play with and are no where near panic mode. Sorry that my first response was so crappy....

This tournament actually isn't deepstacked at all - 20 minute blinds are nothing live, that is fast.Odds-wise: Hero gets 1,6:1 drawing to (at best) 15 outs -> ~30% to hit on the turn, not quite enough. If just his flush draw is alive, he's less than 20% to hit it on the next card. Therefore I don't really like calling and reevaluating on the turn.Middle pair+nut flush draw is an exellent draw that I'd like to see both turn and river with, combined with fold equity (I wouldn't mind villain folding a king here), I do think that pushing all-in is the best play.

[HijackedAffairs 0]

Easy push with the fold equity. To win tournaments you have to be willing to gamble in these spots I think. Especially with 20 minute blind levels. If the range you put the villain on is correct you are actually giving up a little value in just calling.

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys...My mentality is to play for first, I don't mind gambling to try to get a big stack early. I did push, he called with K10. 1 club. A pretty loose call I would say, but oh well. Its a coin flip and I lose, and was out not long after. The good news is I won my entry fee back on the 2-5 (limit) tables and another 300 on a dollar slot machine. (BTW play 2-5 limit is not much different than playing dollar slots - but the only option up there)

[Zelphade 0]

i got brutalized playing the 2-5 limit up there. It would have helped if i would have ever made a hand when i flopped a big draw. A couple of times i flopped sets and got runner runnered for bigger boats. I finally gave up after losing about 200. But i did happen to win 150 of it back playing $5 limit blackjack.

[BDPoolie 0]

After thinking about it again and seeing that everyone else said to just call i think shoving is a bad play. This is a deep stack tourney and there is no need for me to look like a donkey like you did in the first level. I guess im just too use to internet tournies where u start with no chips. I think i might have just called also. Even if you miss you still have alot of chips to play with and are no where near panic mode. Sorry that my first response was how I'd really play it....

FYP

[Zelphade 0]

nice changes to my post bdpoolie.... not everyone else said to just call. One guy said to push. U must not have paid much attention to the posts at all and just wanted to troll someone.... thx but no thx..

[BDPoolie 0]

nice changes to my post bdpoolie.... not everyone else said to just call. One guy said to push. U must not have paid much attention to the posts at all and just wanted to troll someone.... thx but no thx..

It was all in fun dude, relax. I always see other people doing "FYP" and making fun and I was just trying to have a little fun. It wasn't meant to "troll" you.Sorry if it offended you.

[Zelphade 0]

No problem i guess it just hit me the wrong way. It never occured to me that u were trying to be funny. I didnt even see the "FYP". sorry if i overreacted!!!

[Jerry_Lundegaard 0]

FYP

By God you are right. You start with 1500 in a Stars tourney and 7000 here. Clearly I will be able to see many more hands in this live tourney so I should have slowed down. Luckily our dealer could deal out the cards in less than a second, split pots instantly, etc. I should have thought about that.