14 replies to this topic

[raptor22dneg]

I was playing in a 200 max no limit game (1-2 blinds) at a casino in New York and this table was semi aggressive. I had been there for a few hours and I had a pretty good idea of how certain players where playing. I had about $195 in front of me going up and down for the last few hours of play. Everyone else at the table also has about 200 as well.

I was dealt 33 preflop in the small blind and an aggressive player raises it to ten from second position. This was the normal raise at this table and always got at least one or two calls, sometime 5 calls. Two players called the 10 dollar raise (the cutt off and the button) before it was my turn. After I called the 10 the flop came 2, 3, 4 rainbow.

Like i said before, i had a pretty good idea how these guys played and i was about 90% sure someone was going to bet at the pot...it happen with these certain players in the pot everytime they were involved, especially with the preflop raiser (he always followed with a bet). They could never let a flop go without a bet.
Anyways, i checked the flop, counting on one of them to bet so i could reraise. Sure enough the preflop raiser bet 25, which was pretty standard from him or others at the table around this time. The other two players before me both called!! I reraised the pot to $75. The preflop raiser folded as did the button but the cutoff called. (This player was the worst at the table probably down about 6 to 8 hundred dollars since i had been at the table, for i had seen him rebuy a bunch in just a few hours making some really bad calls and plays in general)

The turn was a 9, still no flush draw. What are your thoughts and how do you all think I should play the rest of the hand or how do you think i should have played the hand up till this point. How do i approach this hand? What are some thoughts that I need to think about? Are you worried about a better hand or just concerned about getting max value for my trips, not having seen this good of a hand in the last 4 hours?

After I see what some people have to say about the hand thus far, i will devulge the rest of what happened.


I am trying to become a good NL HOLDEM cash game player so any tips about the game and certain situations like this would be greatly appreciated. Please only respond if you are a very experience NL holdem player with lots of live successful cash game experience at these levels or higher under your belt.

Thanks

[tskillz187]

Make a bigger C/R, to $100 or so. Shove the turn, hope he has overpair and calls.

[Acid_Knight]

Welcome to the Forum!

You really shouldn't be worried that you're beaten at this point and if you are, you're just gonna have to pay it off anyway.

I would also make the check/raise a little bit bigger, maybe $90 or $100 total. Once the turn falls, you just shove and hope for the best.

[shimishimi]

unless a 5 comes. you are pretty much save. bet pot size. over bet. you would get a call. fo sho. if A hit on the river, thats the jackpot card for you. donk would call a pretty big bet with A3.

[channjalen2003]

I was playing in a 200 max no limit game (1-2 blinds) at a casino in New York and this table was semi aggressive. I had been there for a few hours and I had a pretty good idea of how certain players where playing. I had about $195 in front of me going up and down for the last few hours of play. Everyone else at the table also has about 200 as well.

I was dealt 33 preflop in the small blind and an aggressive player raises it to ten from second position. This was the normal raise at this table and always got at least one or two calls, sometime 5 calls. Two players called the 10 dollar raise (the cutt off and the button) before it was my turn. After I called the 10 the flop came 2, 3, 4 rainbow.

Like i said before, i had a pretty good idea how these guys played and i was about 90% sure someone was going to bet at the pot...it happen with these certain players in the pot everytime they were involved, especially with the preflop raiser (he always followed with a bet). They could never let a flop go without a bet.
Anyways, i checked the flop, counting on one of them to bet so i could reraise. Sure enough the preflop raiser bet 25, which was pretty standard from him or others at the table around this time. The other two players before me both called!! I reraised the pot to $75. The preflop raiser folded as did the button but the cutoff called. (This player was the worst at the table probably down about 6 to 8 hundred dollars since i had been at the table, for i had seen him rebuy a bunch in just a few hours making some really bad calls and plays in general)

The turn was a 9, still no flush draw. What are your thoughts and how do you all think I should play the rest of the hand or how do you think i should have played the hand up till this point. How do i approach this hand? What are some thoughts that I need to think about? Are you worried about a better hand or just concerned about getting max value for my trips, not having seen this good of a hand in the last 4 hours?

After I see what some people have to say about the hand thus far, i will devulge the rest of what happened.
I am trying to become a good NL HOLDEM cash game player so any tips about the game and certain situations like this would be greatly appreciated. Please only respond if you are a very experience NL holdem player with lots of live successful cash game experience at these levels or higher under your belt.

Thanks

I agree. The c/r needs to be bigger, you only raised 50 which is not even half the pot. Now they are getting more than 3 to 1 to call.Too many hands might draw to that. A or 5 turns and you could be in trouble. I like the read on the guy who always
continuation bets. Made a good read now dont underbet it and lose your pot.

[DB10-2]

pretty sure the board didn't pair and the guy left in the pot had either already hit a straight or did on the end.

as every has said, you check raise should have been bigger on the flop, and there's no reason not to put your last $90-$100 in on the turn. if they guy already has a straight, hits one on the end, or has a bigger set, that's poker.

[raptor22dneg]

I am going to post the results of my hand on Monday to give time to hear more insight so I would appreciate it if some of you guys could check back then to offer some continuational feedback of the outcome.

I really appreciate the feedback thus far though, you may be surprised of the results and my final thoughts of turn and river as the hand played out.

Thanks

--Does this 100 dollar c/r commit me to this hand since i only have about 90 or so left no matter what hits on the turn and river?

[tskillz187]

$--Does this 100 dollar c/r commit me to this hand since i only have about 90 or so left no matter what hits on the turn and river?

Yes. And it's only the turn, you are C/R and then shoving the turn, do not check/call or anything like that.

[sierradave]

+1 to pretty much everything said so far.

Once you flop that set, you're only choosing between 2 options. You either bet out, hoping to get raised so you can reraise the flop or else you check, planning to check-raise hard on the flop. I like your betting pattern read, but yeah, the pot is $115 when it gets back around to you and there are plenty of ugly cards that can come on the turn. Raise to $100 in this spot, bet your final $85 on the turn, close your eyes and hope for running paint cards or a board pair. Your drawing pretty live against the nut str8 here, and much more often you'll be up against a pair + a str8 draw (open ended or gutshot) or an overpair.
.

[mtdesmoines]

I was playing in a 200 max no limit game (1-2 blinds) at a casino in New York and this table was semi aggressive. I had been there for a few hours and I had a pretty good idea of how certain players where playing. I had about $195 in front of me going up and down for the last few hours of play. Everyone else at the table also has about 200 as well.

I was dealt 33 preflop in the small blind and an aggressive player raises it to ten from second position. This was the normal raise at this table and always got at least one or two calls, sometime 5 calls. Two players called the 10 dollar raise (the cutt off and the button) before it was my turn. After I called the 10 the flop came 2, 3, 4 rainbow.

Like i said before, i had a pretty good idea how these guys played and i was about 90% sure someone was going to bet at the pot...it happen with these certain players in the pot everytime they were involved, especially with the preflop raiser (he always followed with a bet). They could never let a flop go without a bet.
Anyways, i checked the flop, counting on one of them to bet so i could reraise. Sure enough the preflop raiser bet 25, which was pretty standard from him or others at the table around this time. The other two players before me both called!! I reraised the pot to $75. The preflop raiser folded as did the button but the cutoff called. (This player was the worst at the table probably down about 6 to 8 hundred dollars since i had been at the table, for i had seen him rebuy a bunch in just a few hours making some really bad calls and plays in general)

The turn was a 9, still no flush draw. What are your thoughts and how do you all think I should play the rest of the hand or how do you think i should have played the hand up till this point. How do i approach this hand? What are some thoughts that I need to think about? Are you worried about a better hand or just concerned about getting max value for my trips, not having seen this good of a hand in the last 4 hours?

After I see what some people have to say about the hand thus far, i will devulge the rest of what happened.
I am trying to become a good NL HOLDEM cash game player so any tips about the game and certain situations like this would be greatly appreciated. Please only respond if you are a very experience NL holdem player with lots of live successful cash game experience at these levels or higher under your belt.

Thanks

just cr all in on the flop. dude's following you in anyway

[raptor22dneg]

BTW, the results of my hand are as follows:

After the 9 came one the turn I bet all of my chips and he called instantly with the A5o, and the river did not pair the board so I lost my 200 on that hand. My first follow up question is: Is there any way to get around not loosing all my money on this hand or when this happens. If not here; what if we both had more money, like 5 to 8 hundred in front of us?

The thing that sucks is that when your up against a bad player or manic it is so hard to believe they have the nuts or even close to it when you have a monster like trips. When Im up against these players and they keep calling my bets or raise me i mostly feel like they are just doing what they are known to do (that is what ive seen them do for hours at the table loosing all their money): making bad calls with weak draws or hands or raising me with the same crap that they, in their minds think is a good hand, LOL. I have learned to just mostly stay away until i get a really good hand but, and i guess my second question is: Am i just doomed for all my money when i get a really good hand and they finally get a slightly better one?

---It is obviously much easier to get away from solid or tight players (even when you flop huge hands) who you know the money means a lot and they only raise or call big bets with extremely strong hands or the nuts at the time but manics its so much harder to play with, even though most of the time you love them at the table.

If they keep buying in for the max amount when they loose all their money time and time again, they can still take me out five bills though with one of these cold hearted hands. Is there a way to get out of loosing all my money if we both flop hug? And is there a way to get out if I flop huge and he flops a draw and although i bet big, he still makes a bad call to catch which of course he does or at least "acts" like he caught it by using his bully attitude to push me off (making his hand or not)?

That is more of a general question that i would like some insight into what you successful No Limit LIVE players (200nl max player and over) have to say.

As for my hand I think i was doomed no matter what with the money we had behind us but if we had more money behind I think a good way to find out more information about his hand would be to bet out on the flop (although i loved the c/r on the flop knowing that other people would bet out) and if he raised to just call and check/call the rest of the way to try to catch a pair on the board to loose the minimum and if he was bluffing still win a decent pot? And if he goes all in then I could still maybe fold on the turn or river if it was for too much of my stack.

What do you all think about all this I threw out their?

I should rename this thread to Playing with Manics!<LOL>

Thanks a lot for all the responds in advance! IF any one ever wants to talk more stategy at the 1-2nl and 2-5 nl live games let me know! We will exchange IM screen names...peace out.

[whiterice714]

BTW, the results of my hand are as follows:

After the 9 came one the turn I bet all of my chips and he called instantly with the A5o, and the river did not pair the board so I lost my 200 on that hand. My first follow up question is: Is there any way to get around not loosing all my money on this hand or when this happens. If not here; what if we both had more money, like 5 to 8 hundred in front of us?

The thing that sucks is that when your up against a bad player or manic it is so hard to believe they have the nuts or even close to it when you have a monster like trips. When Im up against these players and they keep calling my bets or raise me i mostly feel like they are just doing what they are known to do (that is what ive seen them do for hours at the table loosing all their money): making bad calls with weak draws or hands or raising me with the same crap that they, in their minds think is a good hand, LOL. I have learned to just mostly stay away until i get a really good hand but, and i guess my second question is: Am i just doomed for all my money when i get a really good hand and they finally get a slightly better one?

---It is obviously much easier to get away from solid or tight players (even when you flop huge hands) who you know the money means a lot and they only raise or call big bets with extremely strong hands or the nuts at the time but manics its so much harder to play with, even though most of the time you love them at the table.

If they keep buying in for the max amount when they loose all their money time and time again, they can still take me out five bills though with one of these cold hearted hands. Is there a way to get out of loosing all my money if we both flop hug? And is there a way to get out if I flop huge and he flops a draw and although i bet big, he still makes a bad call to catch which of course he does or at least "acts" like he caught it by using his bully attitude to push me off (making his hand or not)?

That is more of a general question that i would like some insight into what you successful No Limit LIVE players (200nl max player and over) have to say.

As for my hand I think i was doomed no matter what with the money we had behind us but if we had more money behind I think a good way to find out more information about his hand would be to bet out on the flop (although i loved the c/r on the flop knowing that other people would bet out) and if he raised to just call and check/call the rest of the way to try to catch a pair on the board to loose the minimum and if he was bluffing still win a decent pot? And if he goes all in then I could still maybe fold on the turn or river if it was for too much of my stack.

What do you all think about all this I threw out their?

I should rename this thread to Playing with Manics!<LOL>

Thanks a lot for all the responds in advance! IF any one ever wants to talk more stategy at the 1-2nl and 2-5 nl live games let me know! We will exchange IM screen names...peace out.

well, i'm the donk who stepped outa his skin while semi-steaming & posted the awful hand where i shovel PF w/ A Ko (funny thing is, some of the homies KNOW i dont do this, and WOULDN'T leave me alone about it ALLL NIGHT LAST NIGHT specifically because of another situation a few weeks back where i ridiculed someone for shoveling PF w/ AK vs my QQ while we were both supper deep stacked... i made the crying call & doubled up when the board bricked out.. i couldn't bleieve she had A K - go figure my dumbass steams & does the exact same thing like a month down the road)



advice i'm going to provide here is this:


there's NOTHING you could have done about this hand... it's a cold deck, you can't help you flopped the set on a raggedy (but coordinated) board while someone flopped the wheel.. those situations are going to present themselves in this game we call poker... they're known as "coolers"


much the same as if you were vs 44 in a set over set situation... there's really virtually nothing you can do - short of making a hero laydown... but you had no reason to believe you weren't holding the best of it...



now, had you both been suuuuuuuuuper deepstacked and the betting had gone differently, you could theoretically pick up on the fact that maybe your set isn't good & at that point make the correct laydown... however, vs a supper aggressive player, i'd never advice this as they can easily be doing this w/ a pair & draw / over pair / two pair / combo draw of some sort... and usually, you're going to have a much better hand than what's in his range... however, when he DOES show up w/ a hand, he's getting paid because of all the other loose plays he's been making, and it's almost impossible to put him on a hand as his range is so wide...




as far as getting out drawn: that's going to happen, ESPECIALLY AT 1/2 NL LIVE! WOW! honestly, i try to dumb down my play & over value hands i shouldn't (ie AJ, KQ etc) because people who play these limits live, as i've noticed, tend to be very very stupid... sucks when the guy who saw WPT for the first time last week wakes up w/ A K & continues to keep betting & calling bets because "he's got ace king!" on a 9 8 3 board, while you're sittin there w/ 9 10s just waitin to get paid.. only to watch an A fall on the river... water you gonna do? 8x outa 10 he just paid you everything he had cause he got stupid... sure this time he got lucky & you can't beat luck, but luck wont save him every time...


remember, draws are SUPPOSED to get there some of the time... hell they did a damn good job of it vs me last time i played, but i couldn't really blame any of them for playing that way, i'd have done the same.. it just sucks when you flop a set & loose haha...



anyways, as others have said, welcome to the forum!


you'll learn more here than you ever could only by playing... and in a shorter period of time

[mtdesmoines]

Please only respond if you are a very experience NL holdem player with lots of live successful cash game experience at these levels or higher under your belt.

Thanks

The pot on the flop requires a bigger check-raise. I wouldn't be afraid to shove the flop, frankly, for a lot of reasons. For sure, get it all in on the turn.

[mtdesmoines]

I agree. The c/r needs to be bigger, you only raised 50 which is not even half the pot. Now they are getting more than 3 to 1 to call. Too many hands might draw to that.

Players will always make bad calls to draw. Our objective is to give them a bad price. Critical to understand the difference.

[mtdesmoines]

BTW, the results of my hand are as follows:
...
I should rename this thread to Playing with Manics!<LOL>

I play a lot of $1/2 NL live because it's the only game available locally. Not to say you can't win at it ... I cashed out +$1,000 a couple times this week and +$200 the other two times I played. So, here's the deal with $1/2 NL live and some $2/5 NL live: it's totally showdown poker. Don't try to 'outplay' anyone ..rely primarily on hand strength, because you're going to get called down by anything, anytime. I know that it can be frustrating, but the sweet thing about this is that you pretty much know when to fold, you pretty much get paid off when you hit a hand, and when you are card dead, just sit there and wait. No one will really notice when you "wake up" and play hands. With a ton of experience, you can start to recognize more subtle opportunities.

But anyway, I advocate pushing any flopped set in live $1/2 ... you're going to get the call, and you're going to win as much as 80% of the time. Period. Sets in $1/2 live are like printing your own money.