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kurt's jack 10 at the wpt........


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#1 steve7stud

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:40 PM

You might be asking yourself why I started a new post on Kurt's hand. The reason is simple. I don't want to shuffle through 10 pages of flame wars, just to shed some light on a very simple situation.I have played several larger buy in no limit hold em tournaments, and I think I have a pretty good grasp of this situation. In the big blind when you have Jack 10 in an unraised pot. You usually think that with two players they either have suited connectors, a small pair, ace x suited, or two face cards ( but that is a bit unkikely).Given that info, the flop of King, Queen, Ace is GIN. At that point you should be thinking of how to extract the most amount of money as possible. Kurt had three options, after he checked and the other guy bet. Smoothe call, raise a little, or move all in. All three are actually pretty good plays in my opinion for various reasons. Kurt chose to call which is fine.The turn was an ace, another GIN card. WHY? Because if you put the guy on ace x suited he is loving his hand right now. Again, Jurt had the same three options that I listed above. He chose to check and then move all in. Not a bad play in my opinion either. The guy was obviously priced into calling the raise. When he saw Kurt's hand, I'm sure, he hated his own hand until the river.99% of the time, people will NOT limp with Ace King or Ace Queen on the first day of a tournament with a full table. That is why I think that Kurt played his hand just fine. He had three options on the flop and the turn, and all of which were correct in my opinion. Good Luck.

#2 jervmoney334

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:44 PM

Nice

#3 Suited_Up

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:52 PM

This is the first thread I have read, and I'm about to get on the airplane, so I won't be around to respond... But Steve is exactly right on my play. That was my thoughts exactly, especially from the player. I'm actually surprised he didn't raise the A9 on the button. But I knew it wasn't the boat, he was betting almost the pot, and would have probably priced us in if he turned the boat there.I'll give more stuff later... for now it sucks, and I'm on my way back. Later all.
-Kurt

#4 allinbluff35

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:53 PM

Suited_Up said:

This is the first thread I have read, and I'm about to get on the airplane, so I won't be around to respond... But Steve is exactly right on my play.  That was my thoughts exactly, especially from the player.  I'm actually surprised he didn't raise the A9 on the button.  But I knew it wasn't the boat, he was betting almost the pot, and would have probably priced us in if he turned the boat there.I'll give more stuff later... for now it sucks, and I'm on my way back.  Later all.
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#5 Smasharoo

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 04:54 PM

Nope, sorrry, the turn push still sucks.Steve, how in any way shape or form in any situation is it better than calling?

#6 steve7stud

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:15 PM

Smasharoo said:

Nope, sorrry, the turn push still sucks.Steve, how in any way shape or form in any situation is it better than calling?
I actually understand your point here Smash. The reason I don't think that calling is correct, is beause Kurt has the best hand. With my way of thinking, and my previous analysis. I would put the guy on Ace x suited, and would want him to call my all in raise to extract as many chips as possible. He was giving the guy the perfect price to call the raise as well. If Kurt does just call, and the river pairs.........he should fold. At that point he will have invested a ton of money, and be left with close to nothing. Obviously, the idea is to get all of your money in with the best hand. And I think Kurt did just that. There were three ways that he could have done it, and as I pointed out. I'm not opposed to any of the choices. It's okay if we don't agree. That's what makes poker a great game. You always have a choice. But especially in a tournament, where you want to gather chips. I think his play was correct.I don't think I read why you think calling the turn is the proper play. Do me a favor and tell me why you think that is the right thing to do. I see some merit in it. But, I can't say that I agree. I would like to hear the thought process though.

#7 Scott3705

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 05:28 PM

basically the arguement for just calling is because Kurt can't improve while the guy holding the A can. If the guy holding the A will call the river anyway, why not wait to see if the board pairs again before pushing all your chips in. (I would have done the same thing as him thought. My mind would have been going tway too fast for me to even think that much.)

#8 petema33

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:00 PM

Smash-I love how you think you know everything about poker. Any time I see someone post something, you always say "No that play was horrible" or something to that effect. Isn't it true you play .50/1 micro-limits on pokerstars? Hhaha. I think it's funny that you think youre good cause you took your bankroll from $50 to $500. Wow. Congrats. Not that hard when you are playing tiny limits. When you start qualifying for a WPT event like Kurt, then you can talk and criticize people. Until then, shut up cause you ain't that good.

#9 steve7stud

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:06 PM

petema33 said:

Smash-I love how you think you know everything about poker. Any time I see someone post something, you always say "No that play was horrible" or something to that effect. Isn't it true you play .50/1 micro-limits on pokerstars? Hhaha. I think it's funny that you think youre good cause you took your bankroll from $50 to $500. Wow. Congrats. Not that hard when you are playing tiny limits. When you start qualifying for a WPT event like Kurt, then you can talk and criticize people. Until then, shut up cause you ain't that good.
I started this post so that we could avoid a flame war. I think it's great that Kurt got to play in the 25k WPT event. I would've loved to have played, but it wasn't in the cards for me. Lets try and use this as a productive thread. Thanks in advance to everyone.

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:07 PM

petema33 said:

Smash-I love how you think you know everything about poker. Any time I see someone post something, you always say "No that play was horrible" or something to that effect. Isn't it true you play .50/1 micro-limits on pokerstars? Hhaha. I think it's funny that you think youre good cause you took your bankroll from $50 to $500. Wow. Congrats. Not that hard when you are playing tiny limits. When you start qualifying for a WPT event like Kurt, then you can talk and criticize people. Until then, shut up cause you ain't that good.
STFU NEWB

#11 Royal_Tour

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:10 PM

I actually understand your point here Smash. The reason I don't think that calling is correct, is beause Kurt has the best hand. With my way of thinking, and my previous analysis. I would put the guy on Ace x suited, and would want him to call my all in raise to extract as many chips as possible. He was giving the guy the perfect price to call the raise as well. If Kurt does just call, and the river pairs.........he should fold. At that point he will have invested a ton of money, and be left with close to nothing. Obviously, the idea is to get all of your money in with the best hand. And I think Kurt did just that. There were three ways that he could have done it, and as I pointed out. I'm not opposed to any of the choices. It's okay if we don't agree. That's what makes poker a great game. You always have a choice. But especially in a tournament, where you want to gather chips. I think his play was correct.I don't think I read why you think calling the turn is the proper play. Do me a favor and tell me why you think that is the right thing to do. I see some merit in it. But, I can't say that I agree. I would like to hear the thought process though.andSmash-I love how you think you know everything about poker. Any time I see someone post something, you always say "No that play was horrible" or something to that effect. Isn't it true you play .50/1 micro-limits on pokerstars? Hhaha. I think it's funny that you think youre good cause you took your bankroll from $50 to $500. Wow. Congrats. Not that hard when you are playing tiny limits. When you start qualifying for a WPT event like Kurt, then you can talk and criticize people. Until then, shut up cause you ain't that good.Now.. can any of you 2 tell me why pushing your entire stack in early stages of a tourny is a mistake??..The hand was played "ok".. the push all in was his downfall., extracting any amount of chips out of his opponent would have excellent given after the turn he had the 6th nuts.. see



#12 t

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:17 PM

steve7stud said:

The guy was obviously priced into calling the raise. When he saw Kurt's hand, I'm sure, he hated his own hand until the river.
This is the epitome of why pushing on the turn here is wrong. If the guy is priced into calling a raise on the turn with his 3 aces the best option is to call since he is going to call your raise anyway. You still have the opportunity to get the rest of his chips on the river when a blank hits by either betting out or by checking and letting him put you all in (which i think is dangerous since he might just check behind you). If the board pairs you lost a bunch of chips, but you saved yourself the tournament. Sure you are the short stack, but you are still alive at least. I'm not sure the amount of chips he had to start with, how much was bet on each betting round, and what not, but I do believe that pushing all in here is very dangerous. Yes you do have the best hand, but you will get his chips anyway by smooth calling and betting out on the river when a blank hits. In the off chance that the board pairs up (like what happened in this case) and your opponent now has a full house you will have saved yourself the rest of your chips. Just something to think about.

#13 akishore

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:38 PM

it gets tiring to see new posters quickly jump to conclusions and think they know it all when they try to tell more experienced posters to stop acting like they know it.smash doesn't play 50c/$1. he did that as an educational experiment for the forum. he regularly plays $3/6 and most everyone here realizes that he knows what he's talking about usually.that said, i'm not saying that he's always right. i'm just saying that you don't really have a right to discredit his statement.aseem

#14 iveyfan30

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:44 PM

there should be a law that you cant talk shit about a forum member unless you have at least 100 posts or a few months of membership..newbs talking shit chaps my hide...p.s yes , i did just say chaps my hide....
Good times for a change
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Can make a good man
Turn bad

So please please please
Let me, let me, let me
Let me get what I want
This time

Haven't had a dream in a long time
See, the life I've had
Can make a good man bad

So for once in my life
Let me get what I want
Lord knows, it would be the first time
Lord knows, it would be the first time

#15 MapleLeafs

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:48 PM

iveyfan30 said:

there should be a law that you cant talk censored about a forum member unless you have at least 100 posts or a few months of membership..newbs talking censored  chaps my hide...p.s yes , i did just say chaps my hide....
Good law! Cuz I qualify..! :-)
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#16 mark33f

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:50 PM

Hold 'em is my second game...but what do you think of pushing all-in on the flop? I mean would the A9 (I think) really fold?

#17 KDawgCometh

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:51 PM

iveyfan30 said:

there should be a law that you cant talk censored about a forum member unless you have at least 100 posts or a few months of membership..newbs talking censored  chaps my hide...p.s yes , i did just say chaps my hide....
what, you didn't like Toogood or Mrnuts adding next to nothing to this forum from the getgo
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#18 iveyfan30

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:53 PM

KDawgCometh said:

iveyfan30 said:

there should be a law that you cant talk censored about a forum member unless you have at least 100 posts or a few months of membership..newbs talking censored  chaps my hide...p.s yes , i did just say chaps my hide....
what, you didn't like Toogood or Mrnuts adding next to nothing to this forum from the getgo
lol i think the were sent from rgp to destroy us....
Good times for a change
See, the luck I've had
Can make a good man
Turn bad

So please please please
Let me, let me, let me
Let me get what I want
This time

Haven't had a dream in a long time
See, the life I've had
Can make a good man bad

So for once in my life
Let me get what I want
Lord knows, it would be the first time
Lord knows, it would be the first time

#19 Scott3705

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:56 PM

Pushing all in on the flop would have been awful too. A9 probably would have folded cause it is such a scarey board. And Kurt wouldn't have gotten paid offf which he really needed to do considering he was getting a little short stacked.

#20 strategy

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:57 PM

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