15 replies to this topic

[wrto4556]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: God is MP2 with A:spade:, K:club:. 3 folds, BB :#A500AF(2+2 Trout)/ calls.OK. A 2+2er will 3-bet much hands, here. Mainly to try and gain control since they are out of position. I keep the control.Flop: (8.33 SB) Q:diamond:, Q:heart:, J:club: (2 players)2+2 Trout checks, God bets, 2+2 Trout calls.3-betting hands. AK, AQ, AJs, and AA-77. I could be dead, or im drawing.Turn: (5.16 BB) 2:spade: (2 players)2+2 Trout checks, God checks.I do not bet because he could check raise with lots of hands. AA-77. AQ, AJs. I want to see the river card.River: (5.16 BB) xWhat cards am I calling a bet with? What cards am I folding to? What cards am I betting if checked to me? What cards am I raising?

[MrNiceGuy]

wrto4556 said:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: God is MP2 with A:spade:, K:club:.    3 folds, BB :#A500AF(2+2 Trout)/ calls.OK. A 2+2er will 3-bet much hands, here. Mainly to try and gain control since they are out of position. I keep the control.Flop: (8.33 SB) Q:diamond:, Q:heart:, J:club: (2 players)2+2 Trout checks, God bets, 2+2 Trout calls.3-betting hands. AK, AQ,  AJs, and AA-77. I could be dead, or im drawing.Turn: (5.16 BB) 2:spade: (2 players)2+2 Trout checks, God checks.I do not bet because he could check raise with lots of hands. AA-77. AQ, AJs. I want to see the river card.River: (5.16 BB) xWhat cards am I calling a bet with? What cards am I folding to? What cards am I betting if checked to me? What cards am I raising?

Hmmm.... If he is the weak-tight type, and will play his own cards without really trying to figure out yours, then I think I check behind or fold to a bet on a river blank, J, or Q; if an A or K hits, I call or bet (and call a check-raise); and if a 10 hits, I raise (and call a re-raise) or bet (and call a check-raise).But, if he is any kind of hand reader, he can probably put you on AK pretty confidently; so I would call or check behind on the river regardless of what hits (calling a bet if a blank hits is marginal, since if he has AK it's a split, and you lose to anything else, but I think his most likely holding is AK (I'm guessing maybe 40%-50% of the time here), you're getting about 2.6:1 on your money if you call and he does have AK, so I think I would make the call).

[KDawgCometh]

who was it your were playing against, that would give me a better idea. If it was Stheif then you need to bet that river as he is uberaggressive and might just fold to you bluff. Shillx, Entity, Clarkmeister I wouldn't pull a bluff on. PokerBob might be worth a bluff on too as he's been in a rut lately, see what I'm sayin

[wrto4556]

KDawgCometh said:

who was it your were playing against...

pokr_partyer and HGBob were both at my table. :shock: it was pokr_partyer I was against, here.And Mr.NiceGuy, they are far from weak/tight.

[KDawgCometh]

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

[wrto4556]

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

That's how I figured.What do you think about the turn check?

[cdddc75]

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

King kicker beats jack kicker, right? I'd raise and cap if an ace hits the river. You beat AJ often enough in this spot to justify the added rake of capping a split AK pot.It would take a sick, demented, wonderful freak to check/call the flop and turn with AA or trip queens.

[wrto4556]

cdddc75 said:

It would take a sick, demented, wonderful freak to check/call the flop and turn with AA or trip queens.

Think further up. BB knows how I play. He knows that im aggressive. Im positive he put me on AK when I checked the turn. If an ace hits and we get into a raising war, im dead. because he knows im tight/aggressive he will be setting traps for me. By checking the flop, checking the turn planning to raise. I didn't bet so he checked the river to induce a bluff....not sure if that is exactly what he was doing, but it falls in line, imo.If he bets into me when the ace hits, he knows that im aggressive and is hoping that I will raise so he can three bet. Whey else would he bet into me when one of my cards hit.

[cdddc75]

wrto4556 said:

cdddc75 said:

It would take a sick, demented, wonderful freak to check/call the flop and turn with AA or trip queens.

Think further up. BB knows how I play. He knows that im aggressive. Im positive he put me on AK when I checked the turn. If an ace hits and we get into a raising war, im dead. because he knows im tight/aggressive he will be setting traps for me. By checking the flop, checking the turn planning to raise. I didn't bet so he checked the river to induce a bluff....not sure if that is exactly what he was doing, but it falls in line, imo.If he bets into me when the ace hits, he knows that im aggressive and is hoping that I will raise so he can three bet. Whey else would he bet into me when one of my cards hit.

Quoting you from the turn: I do not bet because he could check raise with lots of hands. AA-77. AQ, AJs. If an ace hits and he bets, all the more reason to raise. Make him think up another level by convincing him that you do NOT have AK. If he has AA or QQ, you're screwed because he'll three bet in a millisecond. If he has AK or AJ, he's going to have a problem calling you down. If he has AQ, you put the fear of the bigger boat into him.

[KDawgCometh]

wrto4556 said:

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

That's how I figured.What do you think about the turn check?

looks fine to me. I'm very worried about AQs here

[obs]

KDawgCometh said:

wrto4556 said:

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

That's how I figured.What do you think about the turn check?

looks fine to me. I'm very worried about AQs here

I don't know, like he said, of all the hands worth capping with, you told him you have AK. He is going to bet this river no matter what. The question is have you given up on this hand if you miss the river?If you bet the turn, there is a good chance the 2+2 guy will check raise you if he has a Q, AA, or KK. He may also fold better hands like AJ, TT-88. He won't fold those after checking the turn.

[MrNiceGuy]

wrto4556 said:

And Mr.NiceGuy, they are far from weak/tight.

Thanks, I didn't think so, since he's a 2+2er - but I didn't know if Trout meant fish (obviously it doesn't - does it mean somewhere between fish and shark then?).EDIT: Nevermind, Trout is his 2+2 name, I get it now.

wrto4556 said:

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

That's how I figured.

I'm not clear why you would go nuts on a 10, since you're sure he's got you on AK? Won't he pop it with a boat, call with AK, and fold anything else?Not that my advice is worth anything, but I agree that you have to check the turn - you're behind and you know it (you give away your hand, but since you know you're behind and he won't fold, who cares?). Your flop bet got you your free card, might as well take it.

[KDawgCometh]

it doesn't neccessarily give chris' hand away as I would be afraid of AQ right there very much. If I bet there and it gets popped then I'd have to muck it right there. Since AJ is a possible for chris too he'd be wanting a cheap showdown

[wrto4556]

cdddc75 said:

wrto4556 said:

cdddc75 said:

It would take a sick, demented, wonderful freak to check/call the flop and turn with AA or trip queens.

Think further up. BB knows how I play. He knows that im aggressive. Im positive he put me on AK when I checked the turn. If an ace hits and we get into a raising war, im dead. because he knows im tight/aggressive he will be setting traps for me. By checking the flop, checking the turn planning to raise. I didn't bet so he checked the river to induce a bluff....not sure if that is exactly what he was doing, but it falls in line, imo.If he bets into me when the ace hits, he knows that im aggressive and is hoping that I will raise so he can three bet. Whey else would he bet into me when one of my cards hit.

Quoting you from the turn: I do not bet because he could check raise with lots of hands. AA-77. AQ, AJs. If an ace hits and he bets, all the more reason to raise. Make him think up another level by convincing him that you do NOT have AK. If he has AA or QQ, you're screwed because he'll three bet in a millisecond. If he has AK or AJ, he's going to have a problem calling you down. If he has AQ, you put the fear of the bigger boat into him.

He's not betting into me with anything I beat, though. He put me on AK. He's not going to bet 88 into me...or AJ...or KK...only JJ, AA, KK, AQ, KQs, and QQ.

[wrto4556]

obs said:

KDawgCometh said:

wrto4556 said:

KDawgCometh said:

any 10 you obvioulsy go nuts on. I think a king and your good.AJ or a mid PP looks like what they have. so any ace you should just call instead of getting into a raising war. If you hit your ace you will take it down. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a chop either

That's how I figured.What do you think about the turn check?

looks fine to me. I'm very worried about AQs here

I don't know, like he said, of all the hands worth capping with, you told him you have AK. He is going to bet this river no matter what. The question is have you given up on this hand if you miss the river?If you bet the turn, there is a good chance the 2+2 guy will check raise you if he has a Q, AA, or KK. He may also fold better hands like AJ, TT-88. He won't fold those after checking the turn.

There is a good chance that he will check raise me with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, AQ, KQs, and AJ, too.

[MrNiceGuy]

MrNiceGuy said:

I'm not clear why you would go nuts on a 10, since you're sure he's got you on AK? Won't he pop it with a boat, call with AK, and fold anything else?Not that my advice is worth anything, but I agree that you have to check the turn - you're behind and you know it (you give away your hand, but since you know you're behind and he won't fold, who cares?). Your flop bet got you your free card, might as well take it.

KDawgCometh said:

it doesn't neccessarily give chris' hand away as I would be afraid of AQ right there very much. If I bet there and it gets popped then I'd have to muck it right there. Since AJ is a possible for chris too he'd be wanting a cheap showdown

True, he may still consider AA or KK as a possible holding for Chris - but I think he'd be 80-90% confident that Chris has AK once he checks behind on the turn, since AK would be Chris's most likely hand mathematically, and the most likely hand for him check behind with.Maybe it's ok to bet if a 10 comes on the end and he checks, but I'm not sure - he might he makes a crying call with AA/AQ/AJ, and if so Chris wins one big bet. But if he has QQ/JJ/TT/AK, he's raising for sure, and you'll have to call in case it's AK, which will cost two big bets if it's not. Assuming that he won't have AJ offsuit, he could have any of 11 possible AA/AQ/AJ hands, and 10 possible QQ/JJ/TT hands. On the other hand, he may bet out with QQ/JJ/TT instead of going for the check-raise. Throw in the possibility of a bluff-raise, and maybe betting is the right play, but if so I think it's only marginal.If he bets out at a 10 on the end, I think a call is in order, since you could be splitting the pot with another AK. But I don't think there's any way you should raise in this case.