17 replies to this topic

[Frez]

Hello, my name is Frez and I'm a bonus whore...So I've been playing at Cryto sites since I started 2 years ago (all have rakeback). I also have accounts at PS (no rakeback allowed) and UB (with rakeback).Cryto bonuses are great, but I'm in the Mountain time zone, so with no US players there is no action during my evenings. The games are usually very tight too.PS has the best traffic of course, but bonuses are few and far between.UB has OK traffic, but 2 months ago they changed their bonus system so you only get points if you put money in the pot. Great for stud games, crap for LHE and O8.BTW - 80-90% of what I play is full ring 2/4 LHE, which is why I'm asking this of the other LHE players.So now I'm trying to decide between Full Tilt and Absolute. I thinnk I have these details right, but please correct me if I don't.FT

• get points as long as dealt in hand
• 120 days to clear
• way more traffic than AP
• BUT, bonuses are deducted from rakeback

AP

• points only if see flop
• less traffic
• bonuses NOT deducted from rakeback
• 60 days to clear

AP seems little different than UB, where I have a massive PT database because you can datamine there.FT would be a nice choice, but you're only getting either rakeback or bonus, not both.Can anyone comment on the game quality at both sites?Anyone tried to clear bonus at both?Thanks a bunch

[Zach6668]

Crypto blows.AP, and it's not close.

[wsox8]

sorry for the off topic: but I've looked around and couldn't find out how to datamine on AP.

[RISEorFall]

Full Tilt has the best bonus from what i can find. also, from time to time they give you another couple hundred dollar bonus. and the traffic is good. not PokerStars good from what I understand, but good.I got an account there last august or september, they gave me another 300 dollar bonus around february and another 300 dollar one about a week ago.

[Frez]

Zach6668, on Friday, June 22nd, 2007, 9:03 PM, said:

Crypto blows.AP, and it's not close.

The thing with cyrpto is the bonuses clear nice at 2/4, and you get the rakeback. Plus there are always bonuses.I know you play on AP - have you played FT? I looked at them both last night. AP had 16,000 online, FT had 40,000. Being able to find a good game is the big factor.

[Zach6668]

I've played on Crypto, AP, and FTP. I've settled at AP because it's best, and not close, in my mind.Bonuses are several times a month, and stackable, so you should never run out.ARP value is immensely high, and only increases once you get to elite, which shouldn't take too long for someone who plays there 100% of the time.You can also trade these points in for cash. 200k ARP = $3000. One guy I know who plays 10/20 cashes them in twice a month.The bonus currently clears at 20 bonus points for $5... which is monstrously fast... that won't last though, it's just a promo thing, but even at the regular rate, it's pretty good.And RB is great as well.However, if you're a good player, and play my limits, please don't come to AP.

[Frez]

Zach6668, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 2:29 AM, said:

However, if you're a good player, and play my limits, please don't come to AP.

Only getting better from time spent here!Running about 1.4/100 these last 8000 hands of 2/4. I'm getting in a few thousand a month (also play lots of O8 and HORSE). I know that's not a huge sample, but I feel things are heading in the right direction. Bonuses and RB have built my bankroll to where I have 300BBs for 5/10, but I'm not going there yet. Starting some 3/6 now.

[mrdannyg]

wsox8, on Friday, June 22nd, 2007, 10:41 PM, said:

sorry for the off topic: but I've looked around and couldn't find out how to datamine on AP.

you have to download a handgrabber. i think it costs $10-25.With the new bonus structure (5/20), AP is by far the best. The traffic is crap though, so you'll need at least one other site. I'd recommend just prioritizing. Have accounts at AP, WPX, Crypto, FT/Stars (probably one is necessary). Just play at the best sites when traffic is there, and fill up the rest of your tables with FT or whatever.Oh, and I recommend Pacific. They do have a crap sign-up bonus, but you can generally find one or two 2/4-3/6 full-ring games, and the game quality is almost good enough to make up for it, and definitely better than playing at FT/Stars.Check out PSO too - a couple of the sites are offering really good bonuses now that clear at low limits. Some of them only have SHLHE traffic, but a few are full too.

[Zach6668]

Frez, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 12:54 PM, said:

Only getting better from time spent here!Running about 1.4/100 these last 8000 hands of 2/4. I'm getting in a few thousand a month (also play lots of O8 and HORSE). I know that's not a huge sample, but I feel things are heading in the right direction. Bonuses and RB have built my bankroll to where I have 300BBs for 5/10, but I'm not going there yet. Starting some 3/6 now.

Just a note here...The rake at 2/4 and 3/6 is very high.5/10 is high, but not quite as bad.10/20 the rake is significantly smaller.The reason I say this is that if you're comfortable, and feel you can beat, or at least give 5/10 a shot, it'd probably be a very good idea.It's nice to prove that you can beat a certain level, but in the end, levels like 2/4 and 3/6 are quite hard to beat post-rake. I used to get upset about having a winrate of less than 1 BB/100 and maybe less than 0.5 BB/100 until I understood this.This is a very very interesting post, that I think will open some eyes, for those who were unaware of it. I may have linked it before, lol. http://home.swollyou...com/node/1002 ; In the numbers myself and some other players have run from their DBs, the rake at 2/4 and 3/6 might actually be higher than what he suggested, fwiw.It's one thing if you want to work on your game at a lower level while learning, etc, but if you're playing for the money, and you are rolled for it, and have no problems with dropping down, or handling larger monetary swings, then I would recommend at least phasing it in at some point. Comfort is the key though. If you're gonna play scared, I don't recommend it.Personally, I'd been grinding 2/4 and 3/6 almost my whole life, and after reading that post, and finally understanding the implications of the rake, I've started playing almost exclusively 5/10.In my experiences as well, the play at 5/10 isn't much harder, if at all, than the play at 2/4 and 3/6, and the bonuses/rb/ARP clear way better, at least at AP.Just some food for though.- Zach

[bobbywithani]

Think it's still worth playing at AP with the new BBJ, I mean I hate paying the additional rake, but it seems like those are the only tables availible.

[kkot]

Zach6668, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 1:22 PM, said:

http://home.swollyou....com/node/1002;

The semicolon ruined your link!

[Zach6668]

bobbywithani, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 3:09 PM, said:

Think it's still worth playing at AP with the new BBJ, I mean I hate paying the additional rake, but it seems like those are the only tables availible.

Yes, it really doesn't change much.

kkot, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 3:10 PM, said:

The semicolon ruined your link!

Fixed.

[Frez]

Zach6668, on Sunday, June 24th, 2007, 12:22 PM, said:

one thing if you want to work on your game at a lower level while learning, etc, but if you're playing for the money, and you are rolled for it, and have no problems with dropping down, or handling larger monetary swings, then I would recommend at least phasing it in at some point. Comfort is the key though. If you're gonna play scared, I don't recommend it.

Thanks a lot for the long and thoughtful post Zach. It's a topic that has been on my mind. From day 1 I have been beating the other players, but losing to the rake. Now that I'm sqeaking out an 'after rake' profit, it's got me thinking about moving up.Still comfort is an issue. I actually jumped on a 5/10 O8 table on PS last week because it looked very loose. I only played two rounds, and won a few pots, but stopped becuase my heart rate was about 180.My entire roll could disappear tomorrow and it would have no impact on the rest of my life, but I still get furious when I go down a $100 at 2/4 after getting 2 outed twice in 15 minutes (that was this morning!). Perhaps it's the mental game that needs work now.Anyways, I just finished signing up at AP. I'm also gonna sign up at FT, if only because my rakeback affiliate is offering a big freeroll for each next month for everyone who plays at least one raked hand. I just yanked a bunch of money out of my crypto sites, and will only use 1 or 2 in the future instead of 4, so I can roll a few more sites for now. But I'll do what I have been doing, basically what DannyG says, have a few key sites, but when they have no traffic fall back on Stars (if there's a bonus to clear) or FT.

[Zach6668]

That sounds like a good plan.Like I said, then key is confidence and comfort.A lot of the guys I know who play primarily on AP, also keep some money at FTP for when the AP games are dead or tougher (doesn't happen very often anymore).

[Frez]

Quick update.AP impressed me, because while signing up I entered the code for my rakeback affiliate, but did not enter the code for the signup bonus. However an email to support was all that was required for them to give me the bonus credits. Nice. Plus, once that was fixed, I only got in 5 hands of O8 before my family showed up for supper, and I ended up scooped a pot that I thought I was getting quartered on. Compared to FT where I got spanked by bad beats my first few rounds.So, family is now gone and I'm heading back to AP.

[RISEorFall]

where do you guys get rakeback for AP?ive been looking for another site other than Full Tilt (I can't find a good bonus for Stars) just because i get tired of one site too easily.i hadnt looked at AP lately cause the tables there used to be nit factories.

[Zach6668]

http://www.rakebreak.com is good.

[Frez]

Mine's all www.raketherake.comRunning about 6 different accounts through them.