How Can I Be Behind?

[NoSup4U 0]

Can I fold here? Sneaky check raise with KQ?? Thoughts appreciated.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)saw flop|saw showdownSB ($1162.25)BB ($595.25)UTG ($968.80)NoSup4U ($1210.70)Button ($591)Preflop: NoSup4U is MP with 6, A. UTG raises to $24, NoSup4U calls $24, 3 folds.Flop: ($57) 7, A, K(2 players)UTG checks, NoSup4U checks.Turn: ($57) 3(2 players)UTG checks, NoSup4U bets $36, UTG calls $36.River: ($129) K(2 players)UTG checks, NoSup4U bets $60, UTG raises to $210

NoSup4U folds.Final Pot: $399UTG doesn't show. Outcome: UTG wins $399.

Mark

[Acid_Knight 2]

I wouldn't value bet this hand becuase you can't get value from anything. Do you see why?A8 might check/call, but that hand beats you. Any hand featuring the K is gonna beat you and any A worse than yours, you're chopping with and any better A beats you.You don't need to bluff here. Your hand has plenty of showdown value, but you'll never be called by a worse hand if you bet.Contrast this river value bet to the one you didn't make with AQ against JJ in your other thread.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Can I fold here? Sneaky check raise with KQ?? Thoughts appreciated.

If villain has an A, you're very likely behind anyway. If villain has a K, you're behind. I don't like the flop check, but once you did it, I like keeping the pot small.

[NoSup4U 0]

I wouldn't value bet this hand becuase you can't get value from anything. Do you see why?A8 might check/call, but that hand beats you. Any hand featuring the K is gonna beat you and any A worse than yours, you're chopping with and any better A beats you.You don't need to bluff here. Your hand has plenty of showdown value, but you'll never be called by a worse hand if you bet.Contrast this river value bet to the one you didn't make with AQ against JJ in your other thread.

*nod* thats why I posted this, because its kind of a contrast to that other AQ vs JJ hand. So I took a little while before I bet the river. Normally I check there but I did feel like I could get called by QQ, JJ, TT. I'm really laggy and get looked up by all sorts of stuff. That is why I bet so small.I still really don't know what to think about this hand. I honestly feel like villian decided to bluff raise me on river because of my image and my bet being so small. But then I couldn't really put him on a hand that would need to bluff raise. QJs maybe? I don't think he raises that pf though utg.Anyway, I don't put him on a weak ace or any A really. I still can't figure out what he could have that he'd raise utg with (standard tag player) and check the flop, I check behind, he check/calls turn, and check raises river. wtf? Feels so bluffy to me.Mark

[Acid_Knight 2]

Anyway, I don't put him on a weak ace or any A really. I still can't figure out what he could have that he'd raise utg with (standard tag player) and check the flop, I check behind, he check/calls turn, and check raises river. wtf? Feels so bluffy to me.

Agreed, but avoid the spot in the future by checking behind. It kind of feels like Kx of spades here and that he figured you had Ax or were bluffing and either way would bet the river and he could c/r for value.

[Webslinger516 0]

Anyway, I don't put him on a weak ace or any A really. I still can't figure out what he could have that he'd raise utg with (standard tag player) and check the flop, I check behind, he check/calls turn, and check raises river. wtf? Feels so bluffy to me.Mark

These are all good reasons why checking behind would have been a good move. If you're behind, you saved money. If you're ahead, you'll show down the best hand. By betting small, you opened yourself up for value check-raising and bluffing you off the best hand. I think there's far more value in checking behind in this spot.

[NoSup4U 0]

Agreed, but avoid the spot in the future by checking behind. It kind of feels like Kx of spades here and that he figured you had Ax or were bluffing and either way would bet the river and he could c/r for value.

But what Kx of spades could a TAG hold here? Only hand I can give him is KQs. And then you're telling me he doesn't bet flop or turn with a pair and nut draw? I just can't see him raising pf utg and then not betting flop or turn if he has any Kx of spades. The more I think about this hand, the more I think I folded the winner.Mark

[Snamuh 0]

I really prefer a check on the end as well. I don't see any value here. As played, I fold.

[cwik 0]

This really doesn't feel like air on the opponents side. Fold.But a agree with everyone else and think you should check behind.

[Smank 0]

The way you played the hand looks very representative of a Kx hand, and villian doesn't seem scared.If you have been playing very aggressive and villain has noticed this, he might hold a monster like AA, KK or AK, hoping that you'd use your position to try and steal it. Villain checks his monster on the flop, hoping you'll take a stab, checks again on the turn knowing you won't check behind when you sense weakness, and checks the river figuring you don't have a hand that will call a bet but are going to have a stab at it anyway.

[Smank 0]

Oh, and unless villian thinks you're a maniac, betting this river is waaay too thin.

[krup24 0]

But what Kx of spades could a TAG hold here? Only hand I can give him is KQs. And then you're telling me he doesn't bet flop or turn with a pair and nut draw? I just can't see him raising pf utg and then not betting flop or turn if he has any Kx of spades. The more I think about this hand, the more I think I folded the winner.Mark

I'm with you on this. Villian played this hand oddly. Being that he raised preflop, didn't c-bet, checked the turn, and check raised the river. Just an extremely odd line. I don't think this is Kxs. I mean that hand almost always would c-bet and pump that pot with a pair and the nut draw. Don't know if this has been stated but I smell a monster AA, AK, or 77. I really don't have any other explanation for the action.

[Scott3705 0]

I still really don't know what to think about this hand. I honestly feel like villian decided to bluff raise me on river because of my image and my bet being so small. But then I couldn't really put him on a hand that would need to bluff raise. QJs maybe? I don't think he raises that pf though utg.Anyway, I don't put him on a weak ace or any A really. I still can't figure out what he could have that he'd raise utg with (standard tag player) and check the flop, I check behind, he check/calls turn, and check raises river. wtf? Feels so bluffy to me.Mark

I don't know about 3/6, but 1/2 online and 2/5 live, there are people that will try to snap off a bluff by "bluffing" with a hand that probably takes down the pot without the weird bet. That would put a couple weird pair hands in there sometimes, but I'm not sure it's the case here and that's probably just me thinking out loud.The turn is what's weird for me if you're behind. If we're putting villian on KsQs as being one of the few hands we're behind, he may have given you some rope to try to let you hang yourself on the flop since you're an aggressive player. But then his turn check is just kinda weird cause most hands would feel obligated to bet here. I would have also thought a true TAG and LAG would bet AK or 77 on this flop. So we really have one legitimate hand we're behind by the river and I think this hand only shows up if our villian is more on the tight passive side.My final thought about this hand is that you played the hand can kind of look like a king, so even though none of us can really put together the strangeness of the action, he needs something pretty strong here to C/R the river.I think when he checks to you on the river, he's got Jacks and queens a lot which would be consistent with his action and a value bet is alright since as you said, you get looked up all the time by weird hands. When he reraises I guess we have to fold just because we can't put together a hand for the vilian.