Zeejustin Chip Leader

[Totalbluff 0]

lol my daughter was sitting here and asked me what I posting about and she said that so I threw it in (she's 16). It made me laugh because I had never heard it before...get over it. She also laughed and called me a swaggerjacker for posting it. I have no idea what that means either but feel free to pass judgement on me for posting it as well.The condescension in this thread is coming from you with the holier than thou attitude.Do you really feel the need to prove you don't cheat by judging others so harshly. We get it. You don't cheat. OBV your life is mistake free which allows you the freedom to have no fear of falling from the lofty places you live. Maybe some of us more morally reprehensible people just have a little more forgiveness in us.No where in my post did I "defend" their actions. I was just adding a little insight into what some of the players were actually thinking while they were doing it. In their warped way of thinking, they were not out to cheat, thieve, defraud, steal or whatever word you want to throw out there. They were completely in the wrong, but I still don't think of them as the scum of the earth as they are being made out to be.BTW the added condescension in this post is just so I can fit in with all the cool kids. Forgive me for caving to the peer pressure.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

"Why is it that when Doyle Bronson makes a FT at the WSOP, no one ever brings up his cheating past?"Excuse me? What cheating past would this be?

Maybe you think Doyle, Slim and Sailor were the only honest professional poker players fading the white line in the "Good ole days" back in texas, but I for one don't for one single minute. I think there is exactly zero chance Doyle didn't cheat back in the day, and I would bet serious cash that "back in the day" was a lot closer than most people imagine. Just because Doyle has a great smile, tells a good story, is a media darling, and is considered a poker "Legend", don't make the man lilly white. Anyone who thinks he's a man of purest integrity who has never and would never cheat is a stone fool. That's not to say the man isn't a world class player, because lord knows he is. But a Dishonest World class player is going to win a honest world class player's money every time. Listen, I have no clue who or how many poker stars have cheated in their past, or currently cheat. I just think the number is much, much larger than the average poker fan would ever believe this whole poker myth of the honest gambler is so weird and funny. Lets break this down.. 1) There is lots of money being gambled 2) Collusion, particularly passive collusion is very hard to catch and prove. 3) Many high stakes players are degenerate addicts to various things and are perpetually running the risk of going broke 4) There is no legal penalty for collusion or any other form of poker cheating 5) The house really cares fck all about people cheating, as long as they get their rake. Cheating in poker is not monitored like it is in the house, 'cause the rake is the rake. So.. you expect me to believe that when huge sums of money are being gambled on, that degenerate gambling addicts, desperate for an edge, won't do something that's almost impossible to catch, has no one really looking for it, and has no legal penalty even if they do get caught, that those gambling degenerates will just choice to take the higher moral ground, just because they are men of their word? Color me skeptical.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Maybe you think Doyle, Slim and Sailor were the only honest professional poker players fading the white line in the "Good ole days" back in texas, but I for one don't for one single minute. I think there is exactly zero chance Doyle didn't cheat back in the day, and I would bet serious cash that "back in the day" was a lot closer than most people imagine. Just because Doyle has a great smile, tells a good story, is a media darling, and is considered a poker "Legend", don't make the man lilly white. Anyone who thinks he's a man of purest integrity who has never and would never cheat is a stone fool. That's not to say the man isn't a world class player, because lord knows he is. But a Dishonest World class player is going to win a honest world class player's money every time. Listen, I have no clue who or how many poker stars have cheated in their past, or currently cheat. I just think the number is much, much larger than the average poker fan would ever believe this whole poker myth of the honest gambler is so weird and funny. Lets break this down.. 1) There is lots of money being gambled 2) Collusion, particularly passive collusion is very hard to catch and prove. 3) Many high stakes players are degenerate addicts to various things and are perpetually running the risk of going broke 4) There is no legal penalty for collusion or any other form of poker cheating 5) The house really cares fck all about people cheating, as long as they get their rake. Cheating in poker is not monitored like it is in the house, 'cause the rake is the rake. So.. you expect me to believe that when huge sums of money are being gambled on, that degenerate gambling addicts, desperate for an edge, won't do something that's almost impossible to catch, has no one really looking for it, and has no legal penalty even if they do get caught, that those gambling degenerates will just choice to take the higher moral ground, just because they are men of their word? Color me skeptical.

Which one of these is not like the other: Speculation, rumor, assumption, innuendo, fact...The dude was CAUGHT cheating, and admitted it.End.

[Spademan 94]

lol my daughter was sitting here and asked me what I posting about and she said that so I threw it in (she's 16). It made me laugh because I had never heard it before...get over it. She also laughed and called me a swaggerjacker for posting it. I have no idea what that means either but feel free to pass judgement on me for posting it as well.The condescension in this thread is coming from you with the holier than thou attitude.Do you really feel the need to prove you don't cheat by judging others so harshly. We get it. You don't cheat. OBV your life is mistake free which allows you the freedom to have no fear of falling from the lofty places you live. Maybe some of us more morally reprehensible people just have a little more forgiveness in us.No where in my post did I "defend" their actions. I was just adding a little insight into what some of the players were actually thinking while they were doing it. In their warped way of thinking, they were not out to cheat, thieve, defraud, steal or whatever word you want to throw out there. They were completely in the wrong, but I still don't think of them as the scum of the earth as they are being made out to be.BTW the added condescension in this post is just so I can fit in with all the cool kids. Forgive me for caving to the peer pressure.

You've failed as a father, a man of logic, and a human being.Hat trick.

[Totalbluff 0]

You've failed as a father, a man of logic, and a human being.Hat trick.

I will concede the failing as a father and a man, seeing as how I am a woman. However, I don't see how a little forgiveness ever hurt anyone.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Which one of these is not like the other: Speculation, rumor, assumption, innuendo, fact...The dude was CAUGHT cheating, and admitted it.End.

So you don't think that cheating goes on in high stakes poker then? You think Amarillo slim was an honest gambler? You think a bunch of broke degenerates keep it clean 'cause of the love of the game? You're whats known as a "sucker"

[timwakefield 68]

I will concede the failing as a father and a man, seeing as how I am a woman.

[Naismith 0]

Cripes. This guy is a kid. I'm sure everyone on here screwed up when they were young. He's either learned or he hasn't learned, so you'll get ample opportunity to judge him going forward.

[vbnautilus 48]

I will concede the failing as a father and a man, seeing as how I am a woman.

POTW

[Spademan 94]

I will concede the failing as a father and a man, seeing as how I am a woman. However, I don't see how a little forgiveness ever hurt anyone.

Knew that was going to happen.Risk of a good joke.The problem isn't a matter of forgiveness, it is the attempt to pretend like cheating is a "mistake", it isn't.And why would I "forgive" someone who tried to cheat me? I wouldn't. I wouldn't play poker with them if I could avoid it, and I wouldn't let them play at all if I could control it.Not cheating people doesn't put me on a high horse, or make me holier than thou. It makes me have basic human integrity. It isn't something that should be praised, it is something that should be expected.

[SuperJon 175]

So you don't think that cheating goes on in high stakes poker then? You think Amarillo slim was an honest gambler? You think a bunch of broke degenerates keep it clean 'cause of the love of the game? You're whats known as a "sucker"

I <3 you.

[runthemover 39]

So you don't think that cheating goes on in high stakes poker then? You think Amarillo slim was an honest gambler? You think a bunch of broke degenerates keep it clean 'cause of the love of the game? You're whats known as a "sucker"

you don't think there's a distinction between actually being caught and speculation? I do.I think we should probably be wary of of these people that there are stories and rumours of "back in the day." But, I also think we shouldn't treat them the same as someone who was caught and admitted to his cheating. We know this guy cheated. Make an example of him. Make sure other people know if you're caught it will follow you around.Just because there is probably other cheating/questionable behaviour going on doesn't mean that we should treat "lesser" cheaters, as you seem to put it, leniently.

[Balloon guy 158]

Not cheating people doesn't put me on a high horse, or make me holier than thou. It makes me have basic human integrity. It isn't something that should be praised, it is something that should be expected.

QFTReal men (and women) don't cheat.People that excuse this behavior by saying everyone does it are just making excuses for their own lack of integrity.There are people in the world that actually think doing the right thing, no matter what it cost or who knows you did it, is the only way to live. Some of you will probably never understand this.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

So you don't think that cheating goes on in high stakes poker then? You think Amarillo slim was an honest gambler? You think a bunch of broke degenerates keep it clean 'cause of the love of the game? You're whats known as a "sucker"

Your point seems to be that Justin isn't a cheater because someone else might have been in the past.I used to think you were simply a troll - that nobody could be as stupid as you pretend to be in the name of trying to be funny or offensive......bad read by me apparently.

[Balloon guy 158]

Your point seems to be that Justin isn't a cheater because someone else might have been in the past.I used to think you were simply a troll - that nobody could be as stupid as you pretend to be in the name of trying to be funny or offensive......bad read by me apparently.

I made the same mistake before....never again

[cubsfan44 0]

QFTReal men (and women) don't cheat.People that excuse this behavior by saying everyone does it are just making excuses for their own lack of integrity.There are people in the world that actually think doing the right thing, no matter what it cost or who knows you did it, is the only way to live. Some of you will probably never understand this.

Thread Hi-Jack....9's are hot on FTP

[Balloon guy 158]

Thread Hi-Jack....9's are hot on FTP

Thanks man, heading over there nowIs knowing the hot cards cheating? I feel dirty

[cubsfan44 0]

Is knowing the hot cards cheating? I feel dirty

I think we are gonna need a new thread for this. Shall i start it or do you want to?

[Balloon guy 158]

I think we are gonna need a new thread for this. Shall i start it or do you want to?

Just in case I will play stud 8, that way the hot cards won't come into playIt's tough having morals

[cubsfan44 0]

Just in case I will play stud 8, that way the hot cards won't come into playIt's tough having morals

Play stud 8 but multi account while your doing it. Pretty sure they cross out that way

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Just in case I will play stud 8, that way the hot cards won't come into playIt's tough having morals

When on the horns of such a dilemma, and I find myself in need of a moral compass, I often ask myself: "What would Amarillo Slim do?"

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

QFTReal men (and women) don't cheat.People that excuse this behavior by saying everyone does it are just making excuses for their own lack of integrity.There are people in the world that actually think doing the right thing, no matter what it cost or who knows you did it, is the only way to live. Some of you will probably never understand this.

If you are insinuating that I am trying to excuse Justin's behavior, or that i think it's right to cheat, you're dead wrong. I just wish people would spend more time trying to catch/prevent hardcore, problematic cheating than spending time bashing Justin and pretending that poker is clean.

Your point seems to be that Justin isn't a cheater because someone else might have been in the past.I used to think you were simply a troll - that nobody could be as stupid as you pretend to be in the name of trying to be funny or offensive......bad read by me apparently.

one of your many bad reads.. that is exactly not the point i'm trying to make. And NO Point did I say that Justin was not a cheater... My POINT, since you are too dense to pick it up, is that cheating is a huge, huge problem in poker, it has been since it's birth. I think people are intensely naive about it, and about human nature in general ( well, not human nature. . I guess I mean about people's willingness and ability to break rules for their own benefit).Me personally, I think the prospect of cheating in poker to be a terrifying one. When I'm in live games, I am perpetually on the look out for things I find shifty, for people whom I think could be colluding, marking cards, ect. I don't play poker online, except for on the lowest stakes or MTT, because I have exactly zero faith in the inherent goodness of my fellow man preventing them from cheating. If you think I'm trying to say Zee Justing isn't a cheat, you're just dead fcking wrong. What I think he is, is a small cheating fish in a huge, huge ocean. And I think there are much bigger fish to fry than him. and I wish people would start turning on the burners.

[Totalbluff 0]

No where in any of my replies did I condone the cheating. No where did I say it was ok. No where did I imply in any form or fashion that what they did was not wrong.I do however think a lot of this had to do with their age, lack of life experience, and just a general screwed up rationale that comes from most teenage kids.I apologize if I don't lump kids who go off on a joyride into the same league as carjackers. Yes, this analogy is comparable in the scheme of online cheating.I personally hope they learned from it and think people should allow them to grow up and move on.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

No where in any of my replies did I condone the cheating. No where did I say it was ok. No where did I imply in any form or fashion that what they did was not wrong.I do however think a lot of this had to do with their age, lack of life experience, and just a general screwed up rationale that comes from most teenage kids.I apologize if I don't lump kids who go off on a joyride into the same league as carjackers. Yes, this analogy is comparable in the scheme of online cheating.I personally hope they learned from it and think people should allow them to grow up and move on.

con·done (kn-dn) TRANSITIVE VERB: con·doned , con·don·ing , con·dones To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

one of your many bad reads..

So......you're saying......um......nevermindlol & qed