.25/.50 Kqs

[RabidTortuga 0]

Am I WA/WB? Standard call down here in position? MP1 is 27/8/3.75/66.Full Tilt PokerLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $0.25/$0.59 playersConverterPre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with Q K 2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls.Flop: 3 3 Q (5.4SB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls.Turn: 2 (5.7BB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero calls.River: T (7.7BB, 2 players)MP1 bets, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 9.7BB

[Frez 0]

It's a little timid, but I'm OK with the call down. It would be different if I knew the guy would get married to top pair, weak kicker (is the 66% Went to SD, or Won at SD?). So what are we worried about? 33 or A3s really. So ya, this could be WA/WB.Other option: cap the flop and then just all down if he still comes out firing on the turn. If he checks turn, bet.

[RabidTortuga 0]

66 is the number of hands I have on him.

[Actuary 3]

looks good.Use pos.Let him bet his 55-99Dont' raise his A3Don't outplay yourself and fold to a 3-bet from 77 on the turnlooks good.What are you doing if he checks the Turn or River?

[RabidTortuga 0]

If he checks the turn I'm prolly checking behind without analyzing too much. If he bets the turn and checks the river, I'm checking behind on the river. Now, if he checks both, I probably have to bet the river for value.I'm happy to get to SD here for as few bets as possible.

[Moneyball16 0]

If he checks the turn I'm prolly checking behind without analyzing too much. If he bets the turn and checks the river, I'm checking behind on the river. Now, if he checks both, I probably have to bet the river for value.I'm happy to get to SD here for as few bets as possible.

I think this is a mistake. If he checks any street I think we should be betting.

[Zach6668 513]

Pretty standard, I think.I hate these donkbet/3-bets. Half the time they're the good, the other half they're air.I would bet when checked to every time as well.

[kkot 0]

If he checks any street I think we should be betting.

I definitely agree.

[Actuary 3]

I presume you all are bet/folding the turn if checked to?And maybe the river as well? (the fact you aren't bet/folding the river, is why I c/r more often )Back to the hand:Why are we rasing the flop?

[Zach6668 513]

I presume you all are bet/fodling the turn if checked to?And maybe the river as well? (the fact you aren't bet/folding the river, is why I c/r more often )Back to the hand:Why are we rasing the flop?

No. Not folding to a c/r. People do stupid stuff when c/r'ing.So, this is a misclick preflop, but look at the turn.Dealt to ZACH6668 [6d Qh] CHOCOGUY - FoldsTAVY87 - FoldsTAZMAAN - Calls $3ZACH6668 - Raises $6 to $6HANK945 - Raises $7 to $9BETORCHECK - FoldsTAZMAAN - FoldsZACH6668 - Calls $3*** FLOP *** [6s 2d 2h]HANK945 - Bets $3ZACH6668 - Calls $3*** TURN *** [6s 2d 2h] [4s]HANK945 - ChecksZACH6668 - Bets $6HANK945 - Raises $12 to $12ZACH6668 - Calls $6*** RIVER *** [6s 2d 2h 4s] [8h]HANK945 - Bets $6ZACH6668 - Calls $6*** SHOW DOWN ***HANK945 - Shows [Ks Jc] (One pair, twos) ZACH6668 - Shows [6d Qh] (Two Pair, sixes and twos) ZACH6668 Collects $63 from main pot*************Furthermore, flop raise is standard. Charge worse queens, stubburn PPs, etc. Value is fun.

[Actuary 3]

No. Not folding to a c/r. People do stupid stuff when c/r'ing.So, this is a misclick preflop, but look at the turn.Dealt to ZACH6668 [6d Qh] CHOCOGUY - FoldsTAVY87 - FoldsTAZMAAN - Calls $3ZACH6668 - Raises $6 to $6HANK945 - Raises $7 to $9BETORCHECK - FoldsTAZMAAN - FoldsZACH6668 - Calls $3*** FLOP *** [6s 2d 2h]HANK945 - Bets $3ZACH6668 - Calls $3*** TURN *** [6s 2d 2h] [4s]HANK945 - ChecksZACH6668 - Bets $6HANK945 - Raises $12 to $12ZACH6668 - Calls $6*** RIVER *** [6s 2d 2h 4s] [8h]HANK945 - Bets $6ZACH6668 - Calls $6*** SHOW DOWN ***HANK945 - Shows [Ks Jc] (One pair, twos) ZACH6668 - Shows [6d Qh] (Two Pair, sixes and twos) ZACH6668 Collects $63 from main pot*************Furthermore, flop raise is standard. Charge worse queens, stubburn PPs, etc. Value is fun.

So you don't see this as WA/WB, or you just don't like to take that line?Also, I'm trying to take advantage of players who always think a c/r is garbage and wil always bet AK when checked to

[Zach6668 513]

So you don't see this as WA/WB, or you just don't like to take that line?Also, I'm trying to take advantage of players who always think a c/r is garbage and wil always bet AK when checked to

lol ya. I don't bet AK when checked to though after not having the lead on the flop.I dunno. When he donks the flop, it's definitely not wa/wb. So I raise. When he 3-bets, it becomes a bit more of a concern.If he checks to me on the turn, I'm betting my hand. If he raises me, I just get confused by his strange line and pay him off once and make a note, or drag a pot and lol.

[Moneyball16 0]

Why are we rasing the flop?

You dont raise the flop? Are you waiting for the turn or river or just calling down?

[Actuary 3]

You dont raise the flop? Are you waiting for the turn or just calling down?

Villain has a high AF.If we deduce he has this because he bets too much and won't fold, I probably raise the flop and call down.If we deduce he has a high AF because he folds tight and never calls, I'd just call down from the flop.not raising the flop (and I use this idea, right or wrong a lot) makes Villain think he has more fold equity and more likely the better hand.since we are calling down either way, I'd rather let an inferior hand keep betting for me all the way thru, rather than having him check to me on the river and then I need to decide, do I want to be c/r'd by this player, or do I want to miss value against 88.

[Moneyball16 0]

Villain has a high AF.If we deduce he has this because he bets too much and won't fold, I probably raise the flop and call down.If we deduce he has a high AF because he folds tight and never calls, I'd just call down from the flop.not raising the flop (and I use this idea, right or wrong a lot) makes Villain think he has more fold equity and more likely the better hand.since we are calling down either way, I'd rather let an inferior hand keep betting for me all the way thru, rather than having him check to me on the river and then I need to decide, do I want to be c/r'd by this player, or do I want to miss value against 88.

I cant imagine not raising at any point. Any hand that beats you is unlikely due to his stats, preflop and flop action. If you think hell keep betting a crappy hand or bluff then I would wait till the river to raise. Calling down is way too passive.

[Actuary 3]

Calling down is way too passive.

I like the idea of raising the river. But I'd have to know what a 3-bet meansI don't want him to fold pp's, etc.we don't need any info from him; but I'd prefer to not give him any, if he knows how to fold

[Actuary 3]

Any hand that beats you is unlikely due to his stats

really?

[Moneyball16 0]

really?

Yes. Even with his fairly passive pfr% he probably still raises AQo there, hes not so loose to think that hell be limping in with many hands with a 3 in it and most people just dont play trips like that on the flop.

[Actuary 3]

Yes. Even with his fairly passive pfr% he probably still raises AQo there, hes not so loose to think that hell be limping in with many hands with a 3 in it and most people just dont play trips like that on the flop.

but if he folds his 88 that sucks.

[Moneyball16 0]

but if he folds his 88 that sucks.

If we think hes b/f the flop here with 88 I think its fine to just call, but only if we intend to raise him at some point. I just think its a mistake to call down when we are ahead so often.

[Zach6668 513]

I like a river raise idea, but it makes you look awfully stupid when the turn is an ace, or the river is an ace, or some sort of other scary cards, or whatever.This is a 100% standard flop raise.We raise these flops because we expect to get called by a worse hand enough.I think he has a worse queen here enough to raise this flop, to counteract the times he has a small pair and folds, not to mention that a lot of those pairs will bet/call and then fold turn, and even if we call, there's no guaratee he's betting the turn with worse hands, he could easily have been trying to take a stab and will fold his 22 or something on the turn.I realize his AF is high, but that could just as easily signify that he's taking weak hands too far, and playing them too aggressively. Let him do that.Also, it matters how his AF breaks down by street.

[Frez 0]

I cant imagine not raising at any point. Any hand that beats you is unlikely due to his stats, preflop and flop action. If you think hell keep betting a crappy hand or bluff then I would wait till the river to raise. Calling down is way too passive.

I agree absolutely. Not raising that flop is missing value and/or valuable information. I can't imagine not raising here.

[Actuary 3]

yeah, we have best hand usuallywe should raisewe eat cookies.

[Zach6668 513]

yeah, we have best hand usuallywe should raisewe eat cookies.

Once again, you've failed to disprove that raising is better.88 doesn't always fold here. In fact, most of the time, they still call down out of pure curiosity.Worse queens ALWAYS call down.Unpaired bluff hands may give up whether we raise or not.

[Actuary 3]

Once again, you've failed to disprove that raising is better.

you may have missed the post where I say it depends on if his AF is from bet/folding a lot and we lose bets against worse hands that fold.In which case, I can see a river raise, if we can trust a 3-bet decision