Aj .5/1

[Actuary 3]

Villain is 14/8/1.8 100 handsTrying too hard? Or sweet?PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Preflop: Actuary is MP2 with , . 4 folds, Actuary raises, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Actuary calls.Flop: (7 SB) , , (2 players)SB bets, Actuary raises, SB calls.Turn: (5.50 BB) (2 players)SB checks, Actuary bets...

[Zach6668 513]

Trying to win pots, are we?Feels like a massive spew on the flop.

[rgold79 0]

Villain is 14/8/1.8 100 handsTrying too hard? Or sweet?PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Preflop: Actuary is MP2 with , . 4 folds, Actuary raises, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Actuary calls.Flop: (7 SB) , , (2 players)SB bets, Actuary raises, SB calls.Turn: (5.50 BB) (2 players)SB checks, Actuary bets...

1.8 scares me away. However.... having gotten where we've gotten, doesn't it look like he's got a wired pair that can't beat a king? 10s or JJ maybe? Maybe you can scare him into folding with a bet on the turn here, and I guess we've got outs going to the river. Although you'll probably mostly get burned here. Like when he check raises you with QQ.

[Actuary 3]

Trying to win pots, are we?Feels like a massive spew on the flop.

see his stats?The pot is 4 BB on the flop to me.He's a SB and could be defending liberally vs meI agree its not a good all the time play**********Rgold:Why does 1.8 scare you?

[Zach6668 513]

You mean his TAG stats? I don't understand the significance in this hand.He's also not defending light vs an MP2 raise. If you were CO or Button, maybe.This is a spew.

[rgold79 0]

see his stats?The pot is 4 BB on the flop to me.He's a SB and could be defending liberally vs meI agree its not a good all the time play**********Rgold:Why does 1.8 scare you?

Uhh... EDIT - I misread. I thought 1.8 was his PFR. Then I realized that over a sample of 100 hands you can't raise preflop 1.8 times. Anyway, a PFR of 8 is still reasonably tight, so I think my point, which was that his raising range probably has AJo crushed, still makes sense.

[Actuary 3]

But does he have a K beat? I have KQ or AK.zach, his tag stats means he folds sometimes.(remember, I'm not making this play routinely. Ok, we have shown winners, folded several hands, etc..)When is raising with air ok, then?

[Zach6668 513]

FPSedit - I didn't answer your questions... i'll think about it some more after my session.

[antistuff 0]

i dont think that the raise on the flop is nearly as bad as the bet on the turn. that queen is kind of an icky card to me as far as you being ahead.

[Actuary 3]

i dont think that the raise on the flop is nearly as bad as the bet on the turn. that queen is kind of an icky card to me as far as you being ahead.

huh?

[antistuff 0]

huh?

what hands is he betting on the flop that you are ahead of? all the broadway hands that had a gutshot now have a hand that they are taking to showdown.

[Actuary 3]

he bets 100% of the hands that missed the flop completely.And he probably calls a raise will most all of them.

[RISEorFall 0]

Trying to win pots, are we?Feels like a massive spew on the flop and turn

FYPmoney you dont lose is just as good as money you win.

[Actuary 3]

FYPmoney you dont lose is just as good as money you win.

I'm risking less than I'm gaining, fwiw,you realize I'm not taking a normal line for me here, I hope.'So, SB is tag and isn't 3-betting a K on the flop and will call down with underpairs or gut shots?I wonder when results will matter.... I need more hands (since I'm not counting the ones I had before the comeback)

[RISEorFall 0]

I'm risking less than I'm gaining, fwiw,

huh?i dont think he has a gutshot on the flop. QJ and JT i would think would be out of his rangeI do think he could have an underpair and i do think he's calling down most of the time

[Zach6668 513]

The fact of the matter is that board is all over his range. He's not folding AA, AK, KK, he's probably peeling with QQ, and then we got smoked on the turn. AQ may even call you down after this turn. Maybe he has 99, TT JJ, 99 hits a set, TT and JJ now have gutshots and may call you down, putting you in a terrible spot on the river, where you have to give up on your bluff.I just don't think plays like this are even close to necessary, and while they work sometimes, I don't think they work nearly enough to make them +EV, unless you have a retardedly strong read, like a superhuman read that he has exactly TT and will fold it.

[Actuary 3]

once he does not 3-bet the flop, isn't the turn bet automatic?you make a good piint Zach; but many of those are 3betting the flop or will c/r or lead turn and make my decision easyYou have to realize, I have a 1.5 AF, so players don't see me doing this very often w/o showing a winner. I'm not as donkyish as I postWe have to get this forum to a point where reasonable players can discuss unreasonable plays in the right situation.You make good points about hitting his range and that's a move forward from blanket statements

[RISEorFall 0]

You have to realize, I have a 1.5 AF, so players don't see me doing this very often w/o showing a winner. I'm not as donkyish as I post

this is hoping that 1. the players, especially this player since youre making the move on him, pays attention and has a read on your playing style and 2. that he will actually try and put you on a range of hands and play accordingly, instead of just looking at his cards and thinking "well, i have JJ, it's a good hand, im calling down"as Zach said with a really good read this play isnt horrible (though on the turn you're costing yourself a chance to drawout since youre folding to a raise), but with no read this is just a huge spew most of the time.

[Zach6668 513]

once he does not 3-bet the flop, isn't the turn bet automatic?

Yes, very much.However, I'd argue you probably see a lot more of the "slowplay" types at .5/1. I could be wrong, mind you.These guys would be waiting for the turn to pop it, etc. I don't know. I find it really tough to analyze stuff without knowing the overall feel of the table, the level, the site, etc.

[Zach6668 513]

We have to get this forum to a point where reasonable players can discuss unreasonable plays in the right situation.You make good points about hitting his range and that's a move forward from blanket statements

I just want to point out, the problem with this is that you can post anything, and defend it by saying it was a situational thing. Like, you had a specific read, etc. It's next to impossible to discuss these types of hands without actually having played them.It's the same as the NL forum, although to a lesser degree, but literally any play can be defended by saying they had a read, etc.

[Actuary 3]

I just want to point out, the problem with this is that you can post anything, and defend it by saying it was a situational thing. Like, you had a specific read, etc. It's next to impossible to discuss these types of hands without actually having played them.It's the same as the NL forum, although to a lesser degree, but literally any play can be defended by saying they had a read, etc.

I hear you.I think there is some room though

[SCS 0]

I don't know. It just seems like lately you're maybe playing a lot of hands less than optimally on purpose so you can post them here. While they are interesting, I think you're better off playing your best game. I think you're creating stiuations instead of just letting them happen naturally.I could be way off on this though.Also, if the games you're playing are boring you, which I think might be happening, then why not try taking up another game. Like omaha or omaha hi/lo.

[Actuary 3]

I don't know. It just seems like lately you're maybe playing a lot of hands less than optimally on purpose so you can post them here. While they are interesting, I think you're better off playing your best game. I think you're creating stiuations instead of just letting them happen naturally.I could be way off on this though.Also, if the games you're playing are boring you, which I think might be happening, then why not try taking up another game. Like omaha or omaha hi/lo.

this is a misread.Additionally, I don't have to play at all. I wouldn't choose to play what bores me.Also, I'm not sure how we define optimal; but if WR is any indication, I might be playing more optimal than ever, although, too small sample size. I'm exploring alternative lines and not posting the straight forward ones as much. Generally, I take the accepted standard lines, though

[SCS 0]

this is a misread.Additionally, I don't have to play at all. I wouldn't choose to play what bores me.Also, I'm not sure how we define optimal; but if WR is any indication, I might be playing more optimal than ever, although, too small sample size. I'm exploring alternative lines and not posting the straight forward ones as much. Generally, I take the accepted standard lines, though

Perhaps your recent postings have led me to believe that you're taking these lines more often than you really are.Normally I wouldn't play the hands the way you have shown here and in other recent posts, but occasionally they might be good to make, to get opponents to play badly against us in future hands. I am curious to find out if using alternative lines is worth it at this level though, and if so, at what level would they be completely worthless, and playing strictly ABC poker is better.

[Actuary 3]

Perhaps your recent postings have led me to believe that you're taking these lines more often than you really are.Normally I wouldn't play the hands the way you have shown here and in other recent posts, but occasionally they might be good to make, to get opponents to play badly against us in future hands. I am curious to find out if using alternative lines is worth it at this level though, and if so, at what level would they be completely worthless, and playing strictly ABC poker is better.

this particular post is certainly not optimal long termThis player might be good tight enough to fold and aware enough to play straight forward from the blinds when I raise next timesGenerally, though, I'm not sure I'm playing that strangly, aside from going for c/r moreI figure there is more money to be made and I'm just trying to find them, at whatever level I'm playing