962 replies to this topic

[Piddle Duck]

Ahhhh, MEAP tests, that brings back memories.

[Jadaki]

Piddle Duck, on Tuesday, May 5th, 2009, 4:16 PM, said:

Ahhhh, MEAP tests, that brings back memories.

Just noticed your signature...Currently Reading: World War Z~Max BrooksI just picked that up earlier this week and its next on my reading agenda.

[Piddle Duck]

Jadaki, on Tuesday, May 5th, 2009, 5:31 PM, said:

Just noticed your signature...Currently Reading: World War Z~Max BrooksI just picked that up earlier this week and its next on my reading agenda.

ahh the reminds me to fix that. I forget since I turned sigs off.It was a decent book, different but interesting.

[dapokerbum]

Just started to read the Tao Te Ching.So far it is great ... I never really figured myself for a Taoist, but while reading what it is, it makes me think that I am more than I thought I was.

[hblask]

Tactical Bear, on Tuesday, May 5th, 2009, 12:08 PM, said:

I have LG's previously mentioned "Required Reading Syndrome" when it comes to Fitzgerald.

I finished The Great Gatsby, and I can see why this would be true. If somebody had told me that I HAD TO read this book, I think I'd have been less than impressed.It's not a great *story*, but it's a great book. The author's use of phrases and structure is spectacularly good. There are turns of phrases that literally stopped my reading so that I could absorb them, enjoy them, and go back and re-read them.I'd be particularly interested to see how it compares to its peer literature -- the other stuff that was out at the time. I suspect it would be even more impressive in that context.

[Jadaki]

Piddle Duck, on Tuesday, May 5th, 2009, 4:35 PM, said:

It was a decent book, different but interesting.

I'm going though it pretty quick, and understand there is a movie adaptation in the works. I'm highly interested.

[hblask]

So continuing in my "how did I miss it" phase, I read "Catcher in the Rye", because I had heard it was not only a classic, but was frequently banned, so it already had a couple things going for it.All I can say is, WTF? Has there ever been a more pointless book written in the history of the English language?Here's the hblask version of cliff notes:"I hate everything. It bugs me how many things I hate. Let me tell you a mildly distracting digression. There, that story really bugged me. I hate when those things happen." [Repeat 200 times]So if you read this one in school and hated it, it's not because it's required reading, it's because it's a pointless book.

[Tactical Bear]

hblask, on Tuesday, May 26th, 2009, 1:19 PM, said:

So continuing in my "how did I miss it" phase, I read "Catcher in the Rye", because I had heard it was not only a classic, but was frequently banned, so it already had a couple things going for it.All I can say is, WTF? Has there ever been a more pointless book written in the history of the English language?Here's the hblask version of cliff notes:"I hate everything. It bugs me how many things I hate. Let me tell you a mildly distracting digression. There, that story really bugged me. I hate when those things happen." [Repeat 200 times]So if you read this one in school and hated it, it's not because it's required reading, it's because it's a pointless book.

Are you sure you understood it? Perhaps you are missing the point. Shall I explain it to you? Seriously, though, I remember liking Catcher quite a bit in highschool, despite the interpretive differences I had with my English teacher regarding the parts with Mr. Antolini. I thought it was a pretty good expression of the angst a lot of teenagers experience. I was scared of growing up when I was that age, scared of change, but I was just as emotionally immature as Holden.I also thought the structure was really cool. It's hard to figure out what's going on most of the time, because we're getting everything through Holden, and he's an uncharacteristically undependable mouthpiece. Everything that happens gets filtered through the lens of his perceptions first, so we get an interesting version of events, magnified by his intelligence, but colored by his biases and muddied by his emotional immaturity.

[hblask]

Tactical Bear, on Tuesday, May 26th, 2009, 12:20 PM, said:

Are you sure you understood it? Perhaps you are missing the point. Shall I explain it to you? Seriously, though, I remember liking Catcher quite a bit in highschool, despite the interpretive differences I had with my English teacher regarding the parts with Mr. Antolini. I thought it was a pretty good expression of the angst a lot of teenagers experience. I was scared of growing up when I was that age, scared of change, but I was just as emotionally immature as Holden.I also thought the structure was really cool. It's hard to figure out what's going on most of the time, because we're getting everything through Holden, and he's an uncharacteristically undependable mouthpiece. Everything that happens gets filtered through the lens of his perceptions first, so we get an interesting version of events, magnified by his intelligence, but colored by his biases and muddied by his emotional immaturity.

My wife suggested that if I had read it as a teenager I might have liked it more, because of that teen angst thing you mention. Maybe that's true. But the book doesn't *go* anywhere. Every page is the same, there is no learning, growing, or change -- just repetition of an attitude.I agree that the structure of the book is great, it's really an interesting and fun way to tell a story. I just wish there was some story to tell, not just a laundry list of complaints against the world.I really wanted to like this book, because any book that has been banned by small-minded authorities is immediately worth a look.

[Shia LaBeouf]

hblask, on Tuesday, May 26th, 2009, 10:33 AM, said:

My wife suggested that if I had read it as a teenager I might have liked it more, because of that teen angst thing you mention. Maybe that's true. But the book doesn't *go* anywhere. Every page is the same, there is no learning, growing, or change -- just repetition of an attitude.I agree that the structure of the book is great, it's really an interesting and fun way to tell a story. I just wish there was some story to tell, not just a laundry list of complaints against the world.I really wanted to like this book, because any book that has been banned by small-minded authorities is immediately worth a look.

you must be the type of person who doesnt understand depression.

[jmkiser]

Just finished re-reading Big Deal by Anthony Holden and Positively Fifth Street by James McManus. Going to re-read Bigger Deal by Anthony Holden starting tomorrow. I need more books :PSoooo....Do poker autobiographies (memoirs?) count as decent reading amongst this crowd?

[brvheart]

Shia LaBeouf, on Tuesday, May 26th, 2009, 9:38 PM, said:

you must be the type of person who doesnt understand depression.

...you mean selfishness?

[LongLiveYorke]

hblask, on Tuesday, May 26th, 2009, 2:33 PM, said:

My wife suggested that if I had read it as a teenager I might have liked it more, because of that teen angst thing you mention. Maybe that's true. But the book doesn't *go* anywhere. Every page is the same, there is no learning, growing, or change -- just repetition of an attitude.

No, it's absolutely about change. Just contrast the two versions of the song "Catcher in the Rye" that Holden sings to himself. In the beginning, he thinks the song goes "if a body CATCH a body coming through the rye." Holden can't stand the slightest human suffering, and is terrified that he is about to grow up and enter a world with an over abundance of it. He is terrified of the prospect of crossing through the fog of highway 236 (I think that's the number...) and drifting through the unknown. He is the champion of innocence. He believes that it is his job to ride around the world and save little children from falling off the cliff at the end of the Rye into the real world. He wants to travel the world, erasing the "FUCK YOU"s that are written everywhere to protect children from seeing them and growing up.But this is of course impossible. Growing up is inevitable. Our lives are merry-go-rounds, constantly moving forward, and we can't do anything to prevent that. So what then? Do we just throw up our hands in despair? Do we just kill ourselves now instead of facing the horrors of adulthood? No, we meet someone in the rye, someone that we truly love, and confront the future with them. The song really goes, "if a body MEET a body coming through the rye." We grab hands with the person we love the most, in Holden's case it is his sister Phoebe, and, hand in hand, leap off the cliff together. This is what Holden learns by the end. He embraces the inevitability and learns that you can't erase the bad in the world, instead you have to embrace the good.Yeah, it's an amazing book. I reread it earlier this year (that's how I remember all this crap). It's hard because nearly everything in the book is symbolic, so you have to take some time and think about every odd detail and decide how it fits into Holden's dilemma. Come on, man, there are prostitutes, drinking, fighting, girls asses in skirts, and it all takes place in old school New York in the 50's! What's not to love?

[LongLiveYorke]

brvheart, on Wednesday, May 27th, 2009, 10:37 AM, said:

...you mean selfishness?

But it's an odd form of selfishness. Holden isn't selfish in the sense that he wants things for himself, he's selfish in the sense that he believes it's his right not to have to take part in the world. Really, though, he's one of the least selfish people in history. On the inside, he's over the top empathetic. He just has absolutely no idea how to express that sense to the world, and comes across as as a total ass. He'll have nothing but deep care for people, but will end up saying some stupid thing that makes them think he's a total jerk. To understand Holden, you have to get past his own narration, you have to read through how he presents the world and you have to see into his heart a bit.Yay for 9th grade English class.

[LongLiveYorke]

Oh, and here's my reading list for the summer:Slaughterhouse 5Moby DickHoward Zinn's A people's History of the United StatesThe Brothers KaramazovUlyssesI'm going to find some smaller books to slip in there so I'm not confronted with these huge monsters back to back. Maybe the Old Man and the Sea or the Metamorphosis, something like those.Oh, I'll probably throw in some Shakespeare as well.

[LongLiveYorke]

hblask, on Wednesday, May 6th, 2009, 2:03 PM, said:

I finished The Great Gatsby, and I can see why this would be true. If somebody had told me that I HAD TO read this book, I think I'd have been less than impressed.It's not a great *story*, but it's a great book. The author's use of phrases and structure is spectacularly good. There are turns of phrases that literally stopped my reading so that I could absorb them, enjoy them, and go back and re-read them.I'd be particularly interested to see how it compares to its peer literature -- the other stuff that was out at the time. I suspect it would be even more impressive in that context.

That book is so beautifully written that I can't stand it. Every page or so I have to just put the book down, look up, and marvel at its beauty. It's poetry the whole way through. I reread this recently. I didn't understand it at all when I read it in high school. Okay, I mean, I did understand it enough to get an A in the class, of course, but that's just a matter of repeating a bunch of BS the teacher says. But I totally missed how incredibly sad the whole thing is, how tragic a character Gatspy is. He creates this entire empire, this world, this person for the sake of a girl. He throws parties that last all night long just for the off chance that Daisy will stop by. He is lost in his world of nostalgia, of longing for past moments with this girl that he once had, of a perfection that (he believes) he had and lost. It just chokes me up a bit to think about it. Not because he doesn't get her back (she was never worth it anyway), but because a man can be so moved by something, so caught up in an illusion, can so alter his life for something, can be so caught up in an impossible goal, and can end up ruined by it.

[brvheart]

LongLiveYorke, on Wednesday, May 27th, 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

That book is so beautifully written that I can't stand it. Every page or so I have to just put the book down, look up, and marvel at its beauty. It's poetry the whole way through. I reread this recently. I didn't understand it at all when I read it in high school. Okay, I mean, I did understand it enough to get an A in the class, of course, but that's just a matter of repeating a bunch of BS the teacher says. But I totally missed how incredibly sad the whole thing is, how tragic a character Gatspy is. He creates this entire empire, this world, this person for the sake of a girl. He throws parties that last all night long just for the off chance that Daisy will stop by. He is lost in his world of nostalgia, of longing for past moments with this girl that he once had, of a perfection that (he believes) he had and lost. It just chokes me up a bit to think about it. Not because he doesn't get her back (she was never worth it anyway), but because a man can be so moved by something, so caught up in an illusion, can so alter his life for something, can be so caught up in an impossible goal, and can end up ruined by it.

Rosebud.

[LongLiveYorke]

brvheart, on Wednesday, May 27th, 2009, 12:07 PM, said:

Rosebud.

Yeah, very similar to Charles Foster Kane. Though his deal was that he created too many identities. He wasn't one great image that he made, he was thousands. He was a different person to every person and had to core holding him together, except for some sled that was eventually burned.

[hblask]

LongLiveYorke, on Wednesday, May 27th, 2009, 9:29 AM, said:

No, it's absolutely about change. Just contrast the two versions of the song "Catcher in the Rye" that Holden sings to himself. In the beginning, he thinks the song goes "if a body CATCH a body coming through the rye." Holden can't stand the slightest human suffering, and is terrified that he is about to grow up and enter a world with an over abundance of it. He is terrified of the prospect of crossing through the fog of highway 236 (I think that's the number...) and drifting through the unknown. He is the champion of innocence. He believes that it is his job to ride around the world and save little children from falling off the cliff at the end of the Rye into the real world. He wants to travel the world, erasing the "**** YOU"s that are written everywhere to protect children from seeing them and growing up.But this is of course impossible. Growing up is inevitable. Our lives are merry-go-rounds, constantly moving forward, and we can't do anything to prevent that. So what then? Do we just throw up our hands in despair? Do we just kill ourselves now instead of facing the horrors of adulthood? No, we meet someone in the rye, someone that we truly love, and confront the future with them. The song really goes, "if a body MEET a body coming through the rye." We grab hands with the person we love the most, in Holden's case it is his sister Phoebe, and, hand in hand, leap off the cliff together. This is what Holden learns by the end. He embraces the inevitability and learns that you can't erase the bad in the world, instead you have to embrace the good.Yeah, it's an amazing book. I reread it earlier this year (that's how I remember all this crap). It's hard because nearly everything in the book is symbolic, so you have to take some time and think about every odd detail and decide how it fits into Holden's dilemma. Come on, man, there are prostitutes, drinking, fighting, girls asses in skirts, and it all takes place in old school New York in the 50's! What's not to love?

I'll have to think about this; I wish you had told me all this before I read the book. Isn't his change though, really the last 2 pages of the book? So 212 pages of nothing, then a flash of insight? Also, if that is it, why would I believe he is going to stick to it? I know people like this, and if the book had lasted another 10 pages, he'd be right back where he was.I enjoyed the book at the micro level -- any two or three page section was fun and interesting and funny and sad, but overall it was too much. I did enjoy the encounter with the nuns, it seemed to be his one satisfying encounter in the whole book. I'm sure there is all sorts of meaning behind that, regarding religion and sexuality and school (they were teachers) and authority and life. If I were to read it again, which I won't, I think it would be interesting to compare all other encounters with that one.

[hblask]

An amazing book I read a couple months ago:Shadow of the Wind, by Carlos Ruiz ZafonThis is a book I will definitely read again. It is about a kid who discovers a rare, mysterious book (Shadow of the Wind) and it takes him on an adventure as he tries to find out the book's history. This is a book for people who love literature and language. It's hard to describe exactly what it is about without giving too much away, but this is one of the best books I've read in many years.