I think you might be misreading my post.
Dratj, on Monday, March 20th, 2006, 8:23 PM, said:
Sorry, but these situations are too vague. There is no info on preflop action.
Yes, the preflop situations are a little vague. In the first situation I just said raised pot, you were the raiser, opponent the caller. The second situation I said it was unraised. I really can't get more specific without posting specific hands. I was just trying to point out that on the flop, under a variety of preflop conditions, it is possible for an opponent who plays draws and top/mid pairs aggressively to also be fastplaying a set, which makes it a tough situation for me to handle against that type of person.
1) I think check raising 3x your pot bet out of position with a flush draw is very weird.
Yes it is. In the situation I described though, your opponent is IN position. I said if he did it out of position, it's a much easier read.
2) Again, I think it strange in no limit for someone to check raise with middle pair 3x your pot bet, it's -EV in my opinion. It sounds more like a limit play to check raise with middle pair. Most of the time, I would lay my hand down if my pot sized bet is raised that much unless I'm against a maniac, in which case I would move all in if I was pretty sure I had him beat.I think it's a much better play to lead out pot size if you have a piece of the board and let the original raiser decide if he has you beat or not instead of check raising 3x his pot bet. It costs way too much to find out where you are.
Yes, it's probably -EV unless you're incredibly good at reads to checkraise with mid-pair, unless you've got a draw as well. So let's just assume for the sake of argument that the opponent plays top pair aggressively like that. The board is not that coordinated in my example - only a flush draw there - and unlikely that villain could be playing the draw. So I'm saying one difficulty here is that the villain could be check-raising with top pair or with a set.Basically, I'm just trying to say the difficulty comes against an opponent who fastplays his sets in pretty much the same manner as draws and top pair. I have no good answer against an opponent like this. Do you?