1208 replies to this topic

[CaneBrain]

Jadaki, on Sunday, December 7th, 2008, 8:20 PM, said:

I never said he sucked, the fact anyone gets so offended about someone not thinking Lebron is Jesus shows how out of touch with reality you guys are. He is one of the best players in the NBA, I just don't think he is the best (I'll stick with Kobe, so will a lot of other people), or the best by a large margin. If you do I have to question how much you really know about basketball. There are a LOT of great players in the league right now, just because he makes more highlight dunks on sportscenter doesn't make him the best player. I wouldn't, dominate 3's don't win championships... it's as simple as that. Again there are a lot of great players in the league, I don't think Lebron is the kind of guy that will carry teams to championships. This is my opinion, and the fact is he hasn't carried anyone to any titles... so you can't really say I'm wrong. Right now, he is still the newer version of Dominique Wilkens, his jumper is spotty at best, his arsenal consists of driving to the lane and trying to dunk or getting on the fast break. In a half court game he has to get extremely hot to stand up against the best defensive teams and he can't do that every night in a 7 game series. I'm sure I'll hear Mike Brown arguments about this.... save it. If Lebron could do half the shit you guys claim, the Celtics wouldn't be champs and he might not have gotten swept in the finals when he did get there.He isn't so far ahead of other top guys at his position that you have to take him over anyone else. Hasn't Gibson been on that team 3 years now?Mo Williams looks like he his helping, but he just got there and there is the whole problem of Lebron not knowing wtf to do when someone else brings the ball up the court or he isn't the one running the offense in a half court set. Maybe Wally forgot how to shoot because Lebron couldn't get him the ball in places he was comfortable... or we should just go back to blaming Mike Brown cause Lebron is infallible right? Gotta be the coach. Maybe the Cavs should have hired D'antoni. Maybe that's another reason Lebron wants to play in NY, because he knows his game doesn't translate well to half court grind it out basketball. Eric Snow has been to the finals on 3 separate teams. You don't play on teams good enough to get to the finals 3 times by sucking ass. The Cavs got plenty of use out of him. And you guys keep talking about Lebron needing shooters... did he turn into Shaq and start dominating the lane?

Yes Gibson has been around for a few years and the Cavs have gotten to a finals and game 7 of the ECF in that span. And they certainly gave the Celts more of a challenge than the Lakers. Mo Williams looks like he is helping? They are 14-3 and it has not been against a creampuff schedule. They will certainly be challenging the Celts again for the East. Honestly, most of your criticisms are the same ones that dogged Michael Jordan for years. And they are ridiculous. Nobody thinks lebron is great because of his dunks. it is because he keeps putting up 27, 7 and 7 every year while facing constant double teams. It is because his teams have been very successful overall. It is true I cant disprove the claim he will never win a championship since he has not won one yet. but that is some mediocre logic. The converse is also true....saying he wont ever win a championship (considering what he has done with some mediocre teammates and considering his still young age) is just a stab in the dark.Dominate swing players do win championships. Michael Jordan ring a bell? If the team is constructed properly you can win with anyone being the focal point. And please dont try to tell me there is some fundamental difference between SG and SF. Lebron and Jordan have been used in almost identical ways. The offense is funneled through them and they handle the bulk of the scoring as well as the bulk of the playmaking. You dont need to be a post player to merit being complemented by shooters. If you command a double team constantly, then you need to be surrounded by shooters. Lebron fits that description. (Not to mention your earlier post that said that PGs are integral parts of NBA champs is absurd. Big men are the key to titles historically (Russell, Wilt, Jabaar, Duncan, Shaq, Mikan, etc. The only PGs that were true leaders of their team to win titles were Isiah and Magic and they both had a LOT of help.)I think you should start questioning how much you know about basketball when everyone else thinks you are insane. Its not that Lebron is way better than everyone else. It is that he is clearly marginally better than everyone else except for Kobe (the ONLY person other than Lebron who can legitimately be called the best player in the league. CP3? puh-leeze.) And he is much younger than Kobe. So when you say you would not start a team from scratch with Lebron, you look silly. I mean nobody likes Dwayne Wade more than me the giant Heat fan who goes to 20 games per year. But even I cant make a legit argument for Wade over Lebron. Lebron does all the same things Wade does and he is bigger, stronger, and younger (and, in my mind, a more natural outside shooter). The fact that Wade has a title is not relevant. Titles are just as much about timing and the total sum of a team's parts. Wade had the luxury of playing his third year with a still solid Shaq, a resurgent cast of veterans, and Big Game James Posey. And they were lucky to get the choke artist Mavs in the finals. That the Cavs have yet to win a title should not be held against Lebron. It certainly was not due to his shortcomings. I mean earlier in this thread you were picking on Lebron's loss to the Celts last year. Have we really come to the point where a guy scores 45 points on the road in a game 7 against the eventual NBA champ and that is considered a failure because they lost? That was a failure by the Cavs (or more accurately a success by the Celtics) not a failure by Lebron James.

[Jadaki]

CaneBrain, on Monday, December 8th, 2008, 6:10 PM, said:

not a failure by Lebron James.

This is what I'm talking about. When will you guys admit Lebron is not a perfect player. If anything is wrong, its always blamed on the coach or his teammates, you guys act like he is perfect and he is far from it. This is what I don't like about Lebron, its the stupid rabid fanaticism that surrounds a guy that hasn't won fucking thing. So he draws double teams at the top of the key, learn to dish off and go post up, develop a mid range game, do something besides get on the fast break. It's no wonder he wants to play for D'antoni, because he won't have to worry about half court basketball that way. So Lebron is a hero for putting up 45 and losing, but if you actually preform and win it's worthless... I'm confused. You know who else put ups lots of nice stats and never won anything, Dominique Wilkens.The fact you guys go out of your way to diminish guys like Magic and Jordan to make Lebron look good is what is so retarded. Magic could play 5 positions, and did it as a rookie to carry a team with it's star player hurt to a championship, you want an impressive deciding game look at what Magic did as a rookie in the finals. But your right, that team carried him... Lebron is clearly better than Magic Allen Iverson took a completely overmatched Philly team to the finals and pulled out a win by himself. Lebron couldn't even do that against a team that wasn't as good as the one Iverson faced.Lebron's NBA finals record 0-4, I would think the most dominate player in the league would be able to pull out 1 win... in a 4 game series, just 1? Oh, lets blame his team and coach though, the same ones that helped get him there in the first place.Wade's game is more polished than Lebrons is right now. Wade can finish a play in a lot more ways than Lebron can, I would think a heat fan who gets to see him live 20 times a year would realize that. As I'm typing this I just watched highlights of Wade getting a rebound, splitting a double team and dunking on Okafor. He also was moving without the ball, coming off screens and working with his teammates to get open and create easy shots. Hitting shots in the lane and the everywhere else on the court. 41 points and 8 boards, man that guy would suck to start a team with.

[keith crime]

Jadaki, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 2:31 AM, said:

This is what I'm talking about. When will you guys admit Lebron is not a perfect player. If anything is wrong, its always blamed on the coach or his teammates, you guys act like he is perfect and he is far from it. This is what I don't like about Lebron, its the stupid rabid fanaticism that surrounds a guy that hasn't won fucking thing. So he draws double teams at the top of the key, learn to dish off and go post up, develop a mid range game, do something besides get on the fast break. It's no wonder he wants to play for D'antoni, because he won't have to worry about half court basketball that way. So Lebron is a hero for putting up 45 and losing, but if you actually preform and win it's worthless... I'm confused. You know who else put ups lots of nice stats and never won anything, Dominique Wilkens.The fact you guys go out of your way to diminish guys like Magic and Jordan to make Lebron look good is what is so retarded. Magic could play 5 positions, and did it as a rookie to carry a team with it's star player hurt to a championship, you want an impressive deciding game look at what Magic did as a rookie in the finals. But your right, that team carried him... Lebron is clearly better than Magic Allen Iverson took a completely overmatched Philly team to the finals and pulled out a win by himself. Lebron couldn't even do that against a team that wasn't as good as the one Iverson faced.Lebron's NBA finals record 0-4, I would think the most dominate player in the league would be able to pull out 1 win... in a 4 game series, just 1? Oh, lets blame his team and coach though, the same ones that helped get him there in the first place.Wade's game is more polished than Lebrons is right now. Wade can finish a play in a lot more ways than Lebron can, I would think a heat fan who gets to see him live 20 times a year would realize that. As I'm typing this I just watched highlights of Wade getting a rebound, splitting a double team and dunking on Okafor. He also was moving without the ball, coming off screens and working with his teammates to get open and create easy shots. Hitting shots in the lane and the everywhere else on the court. 41 points and 8 boards, man that guy would suck to start a team with.

Lebron's problem is that he has never had another player on his team that could create his own shot - this year he does - look at the resultsYou clearly haven't watched him this year - his mid range game is better and he's playing lock down DShaq got swept in the finals - that's about as inane an argument as i've ever heard - that Cavs team was horrid except for Lebron and that game he played against the pistons to get them there is one of the greatest performances everplus that Spurs team was awesome and if there is any championship team capable of taking a night off it was that laker squadLook at the box score for that game 7 vs boston and tell me who else contributedbtw - Dominique was a fine player and that Hawks team was good - it's not his fault that he played at the same time as Celtics and Lakers squads that were stacked with hall of famers at every positionIt's not a one man game - or did you forget that MJ was like 29 when he won his first title - and his playoff results were nowhere near as good as Lebrons his first six seasonsThe guy finally has someone to take some of the load off and they are 17-3 and leading the league in margin of victoryNo one ever said he was better than MJ or Magic but to say that he hasn't shown the potential to have a career like theirs is insane You really need to seek therapy for your angerBTW - last time I checked the entire league wasn't preparing cap space for Wade and he's a free agent the same year - is the whole NBA insane?

[SuperJon]

I once read somewhere that Lebron James can speak 4 different languages.

[CaneBrain]

Jadaki, on Monday, December 8th, 2008, 11:31 PM, said:

things

I was just reading the Cowboys thread. It is INCREDIBLE to see you defend Tony Romo to the death for basically the same things you kill Lebron for.....except Lebron is performing incredibly well in pressure situation (and sometimes winning sometimes losing) while Romo craps the bed every time.And teammates do matter. Lebron will take blame for defeats where it is due. I am not killing a guy for putting up 45 on the road in the playoffs. I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique. Nobody is diminishing Jordan or Magic. But to ignore that they both had lots of help (and lots lots more than Lebron has ever had) is perfectly fair.

[Jadaki]

CaneBrain, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 8:26 AM, said:

I was just reading the Cowboys thread. It is INCREDIBLE to see you defend Tony Romo to the death for basically the same things you kill Lebron for.....except Lebron is performing incredibly well in pressure situation (and sometimes winning sometimes losing) while Romo craps the bed every time.And teammates do matter. Lebron will take blame for defeats where it is due. I am not killing a guy for putting up 45 on the road in the playoffs. I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique. Nobody is diminishing Jordan or Magic. But to ignore that they both had lots of help (and lots lots more than Lebron has ever had) is perfectly fair.

Football is a completely different sport. You can't compare Romo and Lebron, its apples and oranges and you know it. Romo has played in what... maybe 3 really important games so far in his career?I've watched probably 5 Cavs games this year, Lebron seems to be trying to play better defense, but mid range game my ass... I think I've actually only seen him take a guy to the post once and stopping to pull up for 16-18 footers when they are open, that shit doesn't happen. It was disgusting how easily he scored on another 3 in the post, so why he wants to sit at the top of the key and get double teams just screams lack of basketball IQ to me. Especially now that they have a legit PG who can run the offense. This just goes back to he looks lost in the offense without the ball in his hands, and he doesn't take advantage of his natural abilities in easy situations. You can't bitch about his teammates if he can get to the finals with them, do you see why? I can't wait for Williams to miss a big shot in a game so I can hear people bitch about him too. And the bolded part is just not true, your obviously only focusing on my posts here or you wouldn't have missed them.

[keith crime]

try this experimenttake every team that has ever made the NBA finals and take away their best playerI bet you 100 dollars you can't find a remaining team with worse talent than that cavs teamand it probably isnt even closebtw Lebron got the ball to Anderson Verajao on a break to win one of the spurs games - now if he had scored instead of making one of the worse shot attempts in NBA history would you have finally layed off Lebron?

[BigDMcGee]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 8:08 AM, said:

try this experimenttake every team that has ever made the NBA finals and take away their best playerI bet you 100 dollars you can't find a remaining team with worse talent than that cavs teamand it probably isnt even closebtw Lebron got the ball to Anderson Verajao on a break to win one of the spurs games - now if he had scored instead of making one of the worse shot attempts in NBA history would you have finally layed off Lebron?

I'd say the 76'ers -AI is close.

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 4:09 AM, said:

Lebron's problem is that he has never had another player on his team that could create his own shot - this year he does - look at the resultsYou clearly haven't watched him this year - his mid range game is better and he's playing lock down DShaq got swept in the finals - that's about as inane an argument as i've ever heard - that Cavs team was horrid except for Lebron and that game he played against the pistons to get them there is one of the greatest performances everplus that Spurs team was awesome and if there is any championship team capable of taking a night off it was that laker squadLook at the box score for that game 7 vs boston and tell me who else contributedbtw - Dominique was a fine player and that Hawks team was good - it's not his fault that he played at the same time as Celtics and Lakers squads that were stacked with hall of famers at every positionIt's not a one man game - or did you forget that MJ was like 29 when he won his first title - and his playoff results were nowhere near as good as Lebrons his first six seasonsThe guy finally has someone to take some of the load off and they are 17-3 and leading the league in margin of victoryNo one ever said he was better than MJ or Magic but to say that he hasn't shown the potential to have a career like theirs is insane You really need to seek therapy for your angerBTW - last time I checked the entire league wasn't preparing cap space for Wade and he's a free agent the same year - is the whole NBA insane?

Shaq has 4 rings. He can get swept in the finals and still be polishing jewelry, Lebron can go home and polish off Ray Allens All Star MVP trophy I suppose. Way to blame his team again though, thanks for proving my point yet again. Lebron didn't get to the finals himself, so you can't give him credit for getting there and not take blame for losing, one comes with the other DUCY? This is my problem with your hypocritical bullshit about Lebron. All the credit for anything good, nothing bad for a loss... it's retarded.That Lakers squad lost one game the entire playoffs, it was to Iverson and the 76er's. They were not taking nights off. Any Lakers fans want to come in here and tell us that team took a night off? Poppy, Suited... anyone? Look who took all the shots in that game 7, maybe he should pass the ball or something with that great vision... or he should learn to trust his teammates like every other star player that wins titles learns to do.So you want to use the Celtics/Pistons/Lakers teams to explain why Dominique didn't do well in the playoffs, but those are the same teams Jordan was losing to early in his career. Jordan eventually overcame them. The East that Lebron took the Cavs through to the finals in was a joke, it had people asking to change the playoff system the East was so bad. Lebron never would have won any of the series that Jordan lost early in his career.You really think teams aren't clearing space for Wade, Bosh and several other players then you are an idiot.

[Jadaki]

BigDMcGee, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 9:11 AM, said:

I'd say the 76'ers -AI is close.

They both had Eric Snow, right?

[keith crime]

Jordan never got past those teams - those teams got old and disappearedthey got their asses kicked regularly by the pistons - until scottie pippen and horace grant maturedLebron is F-ing 23!!!!!!Game 7Lebron 45 - 5 6 Ben wallace 3 pts 4 rbsilgauskus 2-8 8 pts 5 rbdswally who started 0 pointsdelante west 15 ptsplayers not Lebron 16-38oh and Boston had a guy named Kevin Garnett and a guy named Ray allen in addition to pierceBoston won zero games in cleveland - in fact they didn't come close to winning one whereas three of the games in Boston were closeoh and you're own personal hero Kobe Bryant - got his ass kicked in the finals and basically gave up despite having Lamar Odom and Pau Gausol both infinitely better than any other player on the cavs rosterwhat the hell do you want him to do part the red sea?Now name a better playoff performance than the following against one of the most physical and tough defenses of the past 5 yearsCleveland 109, Detroit 107 (2OT)AUBURN HILLS, Mich., May 31 (AP) -- LeBron James grimaced, limped up to the podium and plopped into a chair behind a microphone.It was the only time he looked human all night.James had already used every ounce of energy to put together one of the most spectacular performances in playoff history, lifting the Cleveland Cavaliers to the verge of their greatest season.James' career playoff-high 48 points - including his team's final 25 and 29 of its final 30 - carried Cleveland within a win of the NBA finals for the first time in franchise history with a 109-107 double-overtime victory over the Detroit Pistons on Thursday night.You're Lebron hate is absurdagain he's 23!!!!!!!!!

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 9:59 AM, said:

You're Lebron hate is absurdagain he's 23!!!!!!!!!

No, your absolute blinding love of the guy is absurd. If anyone points out any real actual flaws in his game you start making up shit to try and prove them wrong, or you resort to blaming his teammates and coaches. Isn't it his job to make them better?What does him being 23 have to do with anything?

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 9:59 AM, said:

oh and you're own personal hero Kobe Bryant -

This shows how much you actually read what I post. I'm not a fan of Kobe Bryant. Never have been, never will be. But he is better than Lebron.

[keith crime]

Jadaki, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 11:12 AM, said:

No, your absolute blinding love of the guy is absurd. If anyone points out any real actual flaws in his game you start making up shit to try and prove them wrong, or you resort to blaming his teammates and coaches. Isn't it his job to make them better?What does him being 23 have to do with anything?

everyone has flaws in their game the great players get better every year and so has LebronIf Kobe is so much better than Lebron why did he lay such a dispirited egg in the finals last yearexplain to me this - Lebron passes to a wide open Wally Szerbiac and he bricks the shot - what else could Lebron have doneDo you forget that Jordan's huge coming out party against the Celtics scoring 63 points was a loss?Do you forget that Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and game and 25 rebounds and yet couldn't beat the Celtics because they had a roster of hall of famers?Magic Johnson came into the league passing to Kareem James Worthy and Jamaal Wilkes - Put him on the 2007 cavs and they get swept by the spurs tooDo you forget that for years his teammates were so decried that Jordan was prophesized to be the Ernie Banks of Chicago basketballwhat does him being 23 have to do with it? Players hit their prime around 28Lebron will win the MVP this year Bank on it!

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 10:20 AM, said:

everyone has flaws in their game the great players get better every year and so has LebronIf Kobe is so much better than Lebron why did he lay such a dispirited egg in the finals last yearexplain to me this - Lebron passes to a wide open Wally Szerbiac and he bricks the shot - what else could Lebron have doneDo you forget that Jordan's huge coming out party against the Celtics scoring 63 points was a loss?Do you forget that Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and game and 25 rebounds and yet couldn't beat the Celtics because they had a roster of hall of famers?Magic Johnson came into the league passing to Kareem James Worthy and Jamaal Wilkes - Put him on the 2007 cavs and they get swept by the spurs tooDo you forget that for years his teammates were so decried that Jordan was prophesized to be the Ernie Banks of Chicago basketballwhat does him being 23 have to do with it? Players hit their prime around 28Lebron will win the MVP this year Bank on it!

Yea everyone has flaws, the problem is the only area I see Lebron trying to improve is defense. He could be a lot more dominate than he is. Even bad players improve from 18-23... I'd hope he has gotten better with 5 years in the league. I don't see the point of "he has gotten better" when every player that age is getting better too.The Lakers ran into a better team, but he didn't lay an egg.. the Lakers did not get swept. Laying an egg is losing every game, something your hometown hero knows all too much about.That 63 point game against the Celtics wasn't his coming out party, I'm fully aware it was a loss as I watched that game. I'm not sure what that has to do with Lebron not being as good as him unless your ready to admit that Lebron wouldn't have been able to do that against the Celtics.What does Wilt have to do with this? The team Lebron lost to in the Finals wasn't full of HOF'ers.When Magic Johnson came into the league James Worthy was still in college, or maybe you forgot Magic came into the league in 80, and James was on that North Carolina team that was busy winning the NCAA title in 82. How did that prophesy work out? I can't count the rings on one hand... how about you help me...Okay, so your saying he is 5 years from his prime, umm... congrats?He may or may not win the MVP.

[CindyLou]

CaneBrain, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 10:26 AM, said:

I bet most people on this forum would struggle to name a significant teammate of Dominique.

Doc Rivers!This thread is ridiculous.

[keith crime]

the fact is simple Kobe had a better supporting castthe cavs played the celtics infinitely betterKobe gave upso how can he possibly be the better playerbtw he has to be one of the worst teammates ever

[Jadaki]

keith crime, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 10:57 AM, said:

the fact is simple Kobe had a better supporting castthe cavs played the celtics infinitely betterKobe gave upso how can he possibly be the better playerbtw he has to be one of the worst teammates ever

<---- am not a Kobe fanboy, will you get that through your thick ass skull. That I have to explain why Kobe is better just shows how biased you're to your home town team. If Lebron playing in NY (oh wait, he will be soon) and Kobe in Cleveland you would be flip flopping like an out of water fish.The Celtics were playing much better basketball in the Finals than they were in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

[Jadaki]

CindyLou, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

This thread is ridiculous.

Sorry, I get a kick out of trolling Cleveland fanboys. It's now one of my 3 favorite hobbies.

[keith crime]

Jadaki, on Tuesday, December 9th, 2008, 12:01 PM, said:

<---- am not a Kobe fanboy, will you get that through your thick ass skull. That I have to explain why Kobe is better just shows how biased you're to your home town team. If Lebron playing in NY (oh wait, he will be soon) and Kobe in Cleveland you would be flip flopping like an out of water fish.The Celtics were playing much better basketball in the Finals than they were in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

what did they morph into a different teamI guess opposition means nothing