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Detroit Real Estate Prices?


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So in the "Is This Normal" thread, BigD posted this:

wanna see something funny?http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan/Detro...y%3Dprice%25201I've heard the average price of a home in detroit is like 22K or something
Am I reading that correctly in that you can buy houses for hundreds of dollars? I mean, I know Detroit is a shithole, but land in the middle of nowhere, without roads or any other redeeming feature costs more than that. I would think it would be profitable to just tear the house down and let the lot grow wild for a decade. I know it sucks now, but it is still part of a city that has the infrastructure to support millions. At some point, they have to figure out how they are driving business away. I've never been to Detroit, but it seems to me that if you had some money that you wanted to leave to your kids, you could buy a large number of these basically vacant lots and let them sit for a couple decades. Or are property taxes too high that it would eat up any hope of profit? It should be based on the value of the land, right? Is it just that nobody believes they will ever turn this around? Or does the city council make owning vacant lots impossible? It's just insane to me that land close to a major city can be worth nothing. A group of people could buy entire neighborhoods and turn them into McMansions.....
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I know you live in Minnesota and as such, are probably pretty naive about this sort of thing, but are you *really* that clueless about the consequences ***** bring to an area? Seriously?Yes, correct. They can take a formerly productive, clean, desirable, major industrial hub and render it into an uninhabitable wasteland in a generations time. Houses there become worthless liabilities, commerce shuts down, social order vanishes and the once-productive lands return to the earth, eventually resembling the places from which those most primitive people once came.detroit_06.jpgNature, nurture, guns, germs, steel, segregation, slavery, oppression, whatever. Why they are as they are doesn't matter. The fact remains, they are as they are and in Detroit, we see the most unadulterated manifestation of what happens when you pluck primitive people from the trees and try to integrate them into a modern world.

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Steel?
Yes, steel. The intellectually dishonest race-inequality-apologists take a three-pronged attack, based on a work by Jarred Diamond called "Guns, Germs and Steel" (
). The 'steel' part holds that since certain races mastered steel, this allowed them progress exponentially while other races were left behind. Like, if Africans had steel before, say, Asians, their civilizations would be resemblant of Asian ones. What they don't bother to ask is why certain races were so much more historically apt with developing these new technologies, while others clearly weren't, living hardly a step above animals... and why those same races suffer from a similar 'civilization retardation' when bought into a modern society. This is the leap (or, suspension) of logic required to buy into Herr Diamonds work, yet since people are so desperate for something resembling a 'scientific explanation' to the undeniable performance-inequality of the races, it's become the standard argument.
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I know you live in Minnesota and as such, are probably pretty naive about this sort of thing, but are you *really* that clueless about the consequences ***** bring to an area? Seriously?Yes, correct. They can take a formerly productive, clean, desirable, major industrial hub and render it into an uninhabitable wasteland in a generations time. Houses there become worthless liabilities, commerce shuts down, social order vanishes and the once-productive lands return to the earth, eventually resembling the places from which those most primitive people once came.
Well, I did live just miles from Camden NJ for a couple of years, so I've seen a pretty ugly side of America... but yeah, my Minnesota naivete is probably weighing into it.But you said it -- the land returns to the earth. That alone should make it worth above zero -- unless the bureaucratic burdens are too high for that. So I guess that's my question, if anyone knows what burden that actually is. Because if the only burden is the property tax on $20 worth of land, I'd think you could hold it for a couple decades and wait for it to come back. Their city infrastructure -- the water lines, the streets, the electric grid -- isn't something you can just duplicate on a whim. Get a bunch of investors together, buy a bunch of deserted neighborhoods for pennies on the dollar, elect a pro-business pro-development city council and just bulldoze and start over. If your $100 lot turns into a $10,000 lot -- still cheap by major city standards -- you'd still have the investment of a lifetime.
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Real property doesn't always price according to replacement cost. It prices according to the demography of the people who live there. Much like everything else you believe, sure, some grandiose ideological maneuver- private industry buying up Detroit and 'turning it around'- might work in an academic vacuum, but at the end of the day, it's all liable to a bunch of 'voters' who believe that government only exists to give them stuff, which in turn leads to governors who only exist to tax the few 'providers' who remain in the city. Free markets dictate it's usually just cheaper to leave those places and go someplace else. You think your ideas would work in that environment, though? Because the replacement cost of the infrastructure is higher than it would otherwise cost to build new or acquire in other places? It's not some novel concept. People have been trying to do just that since the rust belt started rusting in the 1970's- and and the results are in.Warehousing, shipping, transit terminals, etc- businesses that can utilize the cheap, abandoned ghetto infrastructure since their business models are infrastructure heavy and personnel light- are the only operations that work in those places. They can absorb the costs of extra-extra-extra armed security, sky-high insurance, parasitic taxation, etc, as a cost of doing business, simply because that same amount of square footage anywhere else would cost much more. For any other business, though? No. It just doesn't work. Negroes don't drink lattes, they don't patronize book stores, they don't buy antiques, retailers flee in horror after their first year with a theft loss percentage many times higher than their profit margin or getting violently robbed 5 times in two months. There's a reason the only businesses that survive in ghetto environs are Payday Advance Loans, pawnbrokers, shack restaurants, convenience stores, micro-scale general merchandisers, hair/fingernail parlors, gas stations and cel phone shops.

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I'm no real estate guru or anything, but 10-15 years' taxes on a few lots adds up to a pretty big bet. 10-15 might be generous given that michigan has been adjusting downward for like three decades now. their unemployment rate still sucks (12.8 vs 9.6 national) and it doesn't seem like there's any reason for the brain drain trend to reverse.

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I'm no real estate guru or anything, but 10-15 years' taxes on a few lots adds up to a pretty big bet. 10-15 might be generous given that michigan has been adjusting downward for like three decades now. their unemployment rate still sucks (12.8 vs 9.6 national) and it doesn't seem like there's any reason for the brain drain trend to reverse.
According to a quick google peek, it's like 30% in Detroit. The place is just a fucking sty.
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My whole family is from there Henry. There is a good reason we all left. All my friends are jealous I got out and wish they could too, but instead have hightailed it to the outer burbs many miles away. That picture posted says it all.Unless a time machine is invented that returns Detroit to it's former post industrial age glory, that area will be a wasteland forever. Some places just never come back. Detroit is one of them. Game over.

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It's cute how scram blames black people for everything. It's like he's an uneducated Southerner from 1934. I'm sure Detroit's decline has nothing to do with the failing auto industry firing everybody. Definitely just black people. The same way they've rendered every other major city in the country uninhabitable...(...)

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Unless a time machine is invented that returns Detroit to it's former post industrial age glory, that area will be a wasteland forever. Some places just never come back. Detroit is one of them. Game over.
I've only been once or twice, there's (presumably) some shipping significance to the city, right? it had a reason for getting big before autos were around, yeah? I think the place will eventually settle into some shadow of its former self without all the excess housing and unemployed people, but that might be 30 years or longer. there's a reason those houses are so cheap: cost of carry.
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they don't patronize book stores
Actually they do, just not the ones you go to I guess. They've also been known to write a book or two. Your whole "racial superiority" thing is nice too though, but the rest of the educated world understands it as delusional arrogance. I mean it's almost funny to be as racist as you are. Only almost though. Curtis-Elis.jpg
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I'm sure Detroit's decline has nothing to do with the failing auto industry firing everybody. Definitely just black people.
Uh, yeah. Sorry. It is just black people. DetroitCrime1.jpgDetroitCrime1-Copy.jpgSorry your idealistic view of race and equality is so disjointed from reality, but there's pretty much no denying this, even if you happen to hate it. We can make this same statistical comparison to impoverished, post-industrial areas that are largely white and it's not in the same universe.
The same way they've rendered every other major city in the country uninhabitable....(...)
Again. Yeah. Pretty much.
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Actually they do, just not the ones you go to I guess. They've also been known to write a book or two. Your whole "racial superiority" thing is nice too though, but the rest of the educated world understands it as delusional arrogance. I mean it's almost funny to be as racist as you are. Only almost though. Curtis-Elis.jpg
Yeah yeah... Just not the book stores I go to... IN CHICAGO. Of course there are black authors, afrocentric book stores, etc. The point is, they're sufficiently few in number that they cannot support much, beyond a 600 square foot shop between to the Strip-Mall Baptist Church and Pookies Liquor store (and usually, they're just a front for selling drugs anyway).And really, the 'educated world' has no heights on this issue, save for a scant few objectivist types. Most of them are too busy trying to ignore fact and devise complicated history-based theorems as to why race issues in that pesky, non-academic 'real world' just totally don't jive with their ideological framework.
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Again. Yeah. Pretty much.
Yep, white people have left every city, and the ones that haven't wish they had.You are as loony as these people. KKK_holocaust_a_zionist_hoax.jpgI don't know how else to try and argue against your beliefs than to list counterexamples, because your beliefs are so outlandish that you are obviously not an intelligent, thoughtful person. Should I just start listing great black scholars and artists? If the black race is so inferior, how come so many of them in middle-class and upper-class environments are so smart and succeed so highly? It must just be a coincidence, right? that with a proper upbringing and proper opportunities they thrive just the same as members of any other race. Biggest coincidence ever, but it must be one because they're monkeys?
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I don't think he said white people are better. It was more along the lines of "statistically speaking, black people destroy cities [presents statistics]"Personally, I hate Bosnians.

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I don't think he said white people are better. It was more along the lines of "statistically speaking, black people destroy cities [presents statistics]"
What are you talking about.
primitive people from the trees
P.S. When's the last time you saw poor "white trash" people drinking lattes, reading books, and perusing antiques?
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And how come I'm the only one to ever argue against the platform of "White people are superior?" I mean come on, I know I'm not the person here who thinks it's beyond moronic.
Obviously its moronic but that's like trying to argue with All_In about Israel. Scram is a loser failure of a person. He went to jail and now lives in area where he is scared of the people around of him and I'm sure there are even more funny failures we don't know about. I enjoy his posts because he is obviously intelligent and really funny, asides from his repeated NO ONE UNDERSTANDS MY CHICAGO!! THE REAL CHICAGO!! rants. So just enjoy it and don't waste your time?
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What are you talking about.
I'm saying that "primitive people from the trees" does not equal white people are the best. Those are two different ideas.In fact, I believe that Scram has said in the past that the best race is "X", and it wasn't white people. But I might be wrong on that.ps. Also, it's pretty surprising that you let an opinion get under your skin so easily. What are you... a woman?
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Yep, white people have left every city, and the ones that haven't wish they had.You are as loony as these people. KKK_holocaust_a_zionist_hoax.jpg
You've pretty much devolved into howing "RACIST!" and "IGNORANT!" when presented with some pretty unarguable facts. Perhaps VB can come along and educate you about the fun and exciting opportunities in the world of cognitive dissonance.
I don't know how else to try and argue against your beliefs than to list counterexamples, because your beliefs are so outlandish that you are obviously not an intelligent, thoughtful person.
Right. I'm clearly not an intelligent nor thoughtful person. That's why I just rely on statistics, while you rely on...
Should I just start listing great black scholars and artists? If the black race is so inferior, how come so many of them in middle-class and upper-class environments are so smart and succeed so highly? It must just be a coincidence, right? that with a proper upbringing and proper opportunities they thrive just the same as members of any other race. Biggest coincidence ever, but it must be one because they're monkeys?
... statistical anomalies.Seriously. There is just no way for you to win this debate on logic and fact. Since I don't argue emotion, you won't get very far here. Yes, there have been great members of (insert race). No one is saying that all races are completely devoid of any examples of achievement. You need to characterize this discussion in that moronic context since you cannot argue it on the more meritorious, factual one.
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Scram is a loser failure of a person. He went to jail and now lives in area where he is scared of the people around of him and I'm sure there are even more funny failures we don't know about.
I'm pretty sure I'm better off personally and financially than 95% of the posters here.I mean, the area I live in (which would probably scare the everloving shit out of you, but does not me, ergo, why I live here) is kind of expensive. I pay for a parking spot what some people pay for rent. Thanks, poker!I'm certainly a loser and a failure in a few ways, but probably not the ones you might think.
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And how come I'm the only one to ever argue against the platform of "White people are superior?" I mean come on, I know I'm not the person here who thinks it's beyond moronic.
I tried for a while, but I gave up and have since interpreted it all as satire. It's easier that way.
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