19 replies to this topic

[SuperJon]

Despite the fact I played this very timidly, I would like to know how others would've played it.4 from the money. Villain has shown down fairly strong hands. Getting around 3 to 1, it's tough for me to fold the river after he checked the turn.Absolute/UB Cereus Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) - Absolute/UB Cereus Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($12965)Hero (SB) ($56394)BB ($25481)UTG ($108727)MP1 ($60905)MP2 ($26197)CO ($33526)Preflop: Hero is SB with J , J UTG bets $3600, MP1 calls $3600, 3 folds, Hero calls $3000, BB calls $2400Flop: ($13201) 10 , 3 , 10 (4 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $6000, 1 fold, Hero calls $6000, 1 foldTurn: ($25201) 2 (2 players)Hero checks, UTG checksRiver: ($25201) 3 (2 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $12000, Hero calls $12000Total pot: $49201

[Chet Chetterson]

I don't hate it. Did you ever think about raising the flop here?

[Sick Boy]

I think you played the hand fine. Call on the river is fine imo, alot of the time river bet is AKs-AJs type hands or smaller pairs that you have crushed. If he has a boat then I think you gotta just pay him of here and say "WP", noting that he checks trips on the turn with flush and straight draws on the board for future reference.

[SwolyswoND]

NH sir. Played perfectly on each street, I think. The river bet from villain is very very often AJ-AK trying to move you off a mid PP. It's also often 77-99 hands trying to get value from Ax.

[SwolyswoND]

Chet Chetterson, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 12:42 AM, said:

I don't hate it. Did you ever think about raising the flop here?

Pretty sure raising flop is bad, you are folding out most of his unpaired holdings AJ-AK and will get flatted by everything else, including AA and Tx. Then being oop on the next two streets you are going to get value-owned.

[Sick Boy]

SwolyswoND, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 4:49 AM, said:

NH sir. Played perfectly on each street, I think. The river bet from villain is very very often AJ-AK trying to move you off a mid PP. It's also often 77-99 hands trying to get value from Ax.

I like how you've basically repeated what i said, lol.

SwolyswoND, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 4:50 AM, said:

Pretty sure raising flop is bad, you are folding out most of his unpaired holdings AJ-AK and will get flatted by everything else, including AA and Tx. Then being oop on the next two streets you are going to get value-owned.

QFT

[rrumsey]

you know at first i just wanted to scream check raise but we get a turn or value out of check/calling the streets we have a hand that is almost always going to be good here so just keep inducing possible bluffs or light bets. If you don't check raise flop im check calling turn and river on blanks and that is what came so great

[SuperJon]

SwolyswoND, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 8:49 AM, said:

NH sir. Played perfectly on each street, I think. The river bet from villain is very very often AJ-AK trying to move you off a mid PP. It's also often 77-99 hands trying to get value from Ax.

Thank you. The only hand I could really put him on that had me beat, and that would bet flop and check turn was QQ. I really think 10x, AA, and KK would bet the turn. He ended up having A9s.

SwolyswoND, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 8:50 AM, said:

Pretty sure raising flop is bad, you are folding out most of his unpaired holdings AJ-AK and will get flatted by everything else, including AA and Tx. Then being oop on the next two streets you are going to get value-owned.

Agree. By all means, if I'm on the button here, I am playing the hand a tad bit aggressive.

[Sick Boy]

SuperJon, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 6:00 PM, said:

Thank you.

Your welcome.

[DonkSlayer]

Anybody throw a blocker out on the river and maybe get some value from AK and 99-77?

[Sick Boy]

DonkSlayer, on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009, 7:24 PM, said:

Anybody throw a blocker out on the river and maybe get some value from AK and 99-77?

Hmm yeah this actually sounds optimal cause then we can insta muck to a re-raise assuming that we're beat right?

[DonkSlayer]

Sick Boy, on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

Hmm yeah this actually sounds optimal cause then we can insta muck to a re-raise assuming that we're beat right?

Yeah. We need to bet enough that even someone with goodsized gonads won't bluffraise the river.

[Sick Boy]

DonkSlayer, on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2009, 7:26 PM, said:

Yeah. We need to bet enough that even someone with goodsized gonads won't bluffraise the river.

lol. i like this. Concure.

[SwolyswoND]

I think Ax and PP are more likely to bet when checked to than calling a river bet. Block betting the river is poor, IMO.

[Mercury69]

SwolyswoND, on Tuesday, September 22nd, 2009, 8:50 AM, said:

Pretty sure raising flop is bad, you are folding out most of his unpaired holdings AJ-AK and will get flatted by everything else, including AA and Tx. Then being oop on the next two streets you are going to get value-owned.

This is probably right and I like the cautious line on the hand, but it's all predicated on the hope and prayer that the flopwill come exactly as it did. If a Q+ comes on the flop, then what? You're OOP and, possibly, calling behind to someone who had any number of Broadway combos. That would be a good reason (and not such a horrible one) to raise the flop, along with trying to fold out some of the other hands. If you take it down because of a re-raise, then you dont have to fade 12 Broadway cards on the flop.That being said, once again, I like the cautious line, regardless of whether we're near the bubble or not.

[SwolyswoND]

Not sure I get the point of this post Mercury. Are you talking about 3betting JJ pre? That is a very bad idea when UTG opened and even more so when we are in the SB. We are too deep to 3bet shove pre, and so when he flats (and he almost always will if he has any clue of what he should be opening UTG with), we're oop and as you said, we are going to hate a lot of flops and will get value-owned. I can't see any other line but calling PF.With your flop reasoning though, I don't understand "taking it down here so we dont have to fade XXX." If we raise the flop, all the hands that we're ahead of will fold. All the hands that have us beat will call, and then we still have to play another street where we basically have to c/f any non J turn. That seems horrible to me.

[Mercury69]

SwolyswoND, on Thursday, September 24th, 2009, 4:21 PM, said:

Not sure I get the point of this post Mercury. Are you talking about 3betting JJ pre? That is a very bad idea when UTG opened and even more so when we are in the SB. We are too deep to 3bet shove pre, and so when he flats (and he almost always will if he has any clue of what he should be opening UTG with), we're oop and as you said, we are going to hate a lot of flops and will get value-owned. I can't see any other line but calling PF.With your flop reasoning though, I don't understand "taking it down here so we dont have to fade XXX." If we raise the flop, all the hands that we're ahead of will fold. All the hands that have us beat will call, and then we still have to play another street where we basically have to c/f any non J turn. That seems horrible to me.

I express myself like a pretzel at times...PF: We have 4 people in. If it was me playing, I would probably just call and not raise. The only reason I would say raise is an option is to minimize the amount of opponents but, as you say, it would have to be a healthy portion of the stack (17K+) which would pretty much commit us. BUT...a reraise might actually win this before the flop...Could be costly, though, if someone shoves.On the flop: All I'm saying is that this is the flop we wanted and we got there cheaply. Might as well keep it smallball the rest of the way, if we can, but it opens up the door for a Q+ to fall on the turn or river and it may end up costing you as much to follow the hand to showdown as it would have to 3 bet fold or 3 bet call a shove PF.

[DonkSlayer]

SwolyswoND, on Thursday, September 24th, 2009, 2:25 AM, said:

I think Ax and PP are more likely to bet when checked to than calling a river bet. Block betting the river is poor, IMO.

But it's a "block bet" first and foremost, not a "value-bet"...I just thought you might get summathat too. Basically you're contending that villain bets the river with a worse hand + checks behind with a worse hand more often that he bets a call-able amount on the river with a better hand, right?

[SwolyswoND]

Yeah, pretty much.

[DonkSlayer]

SwolyswoND, on Saturday, September 26th, 2009, 2:17 PM, said:

Yeah, pretty much.

Fair enough...I take your line if I thought that.