2278 replies to this topic

[SuperJon]

Scenario:

You're in a bad car accident. The only way to survive is to have surgery at the ER. Now regardless of whether or not you have insurance, they have to help you, but you will get a bill in the mail. I think that's correct, but if not, don't bother reading the rest because it won't make sense.

I'm fine with paying for a standard doctor visit and paying for standard prescription drugs. What I'm not fine with, and could never fully understand, is why should I have to pay to stay alive. Like if someone had cancer and had to take drugs and chemo. Those drugs and chemo are helping to keep that person alive for as long as possible, and I know I'm probably being naive, but it's just crazy to me that anyone should have to pay to not die.

Could there be a viable solution to this that both sides could agree on?

[iZuma]

so two possible solutions to your problem: either doctors, nurses, all hospital staff, drug companies, etc. all work and provide their services/products for free, or somebody else pays for it. medical care is a product, just like anything else is a product, and products alway inherently come with costs.

you need food just to stay alive. why should you have to pay for food?

[SuperJon]

Well if you can't afford food, you can get food stamps so you don't starve to death. At least I think that's how it works.

[AmScray]

My issue is employing the community chest to leverage an economy of scale with healthcare.
No different than taxation to build roads, pay firemen, etc. I'm OK with paying taxes for a national health system.

[colonel Feathers]

AmScray, on 29 November 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

My issue is employing the community chest to leverage an economy of scale with healthcare.
No different than taxation to build roads, pay firemen, etc. I'm OK with paying taxes for a national health system.

My issue is not the paying of taxes for healthcare, but the amount of tax. Would you be willing to pay an extra 20%.

[akoff]

colonel Feathers, on 29 November 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

My issue is not the paying of taxes for healthcare, but the amount of tax. Would you be willing to pay an extra 20%.

i personally don't have a problem with the amount, it is to much and certainly should be lower but i understand the need for some and i am somewhat numb to it at this point - my problem it is never enough and we are falling behind.

[AmScray]

colonel Feathers, on 29 November 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

My issue is not the paying of taxes for healthcare, but the amount of tax. Would you be willing to pay an extra 20%.

I'd like to keep it in the +10% range.

[JustDoIt]

New Tax
Feds Propose Fee on Health Insurers in New Market

http://www.8newsnow....s-in-new-market

[FCP Bob]

http://www.businessi...-of-gdp-2012-11

[colonel Feathers]

FCP Bob, on 02 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

http://www.businessi...-of-gdp-2012-11

Admittedly I dont know much about drug prices here and there, but doesnt the US carry the major financial burden of developing these drugs for the most part, and europe just pays royalties?

[FCP Bob]

colonel Feathers, on 02 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Admittedly I dont know much about drug prices here and there, but doesnt the US carry the major financial burden of developing these drugs for the most part, and europe just pays royalties?

http://en.wikipedia....tical_companies

The largest drug companies are a mix of American and European although they are all really international companies with operations everywhere.

More drug research is done in the US than in Europe.

A large part of the reason that drugs are less expensive outside of the US is that governments use their size and buying power to negotiate lower prices which isn't done in the US. Also in some countries the price of drugs is controlled by governments.

[Balloon guy]

Real reason for above

[AmScray]

FCP Bob, on 02 December 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

A large part of the reason that drugs are less expensive outside of the US is that governments use their size and buying power to negotiate lower prices which isn't done in the US. Also in some countries the price of drugs is controlled by governments.

A large part of the reason drug companies deal with that is they know in the end they can break it off in the ass of the US consumer to make up the difference. It's a very different world if that ever changes.

With patent protections being what they are in this country, there are absolutely no free market forces for drugs to control costs once major breakthroughs are made. Of course, profits are often times what drive those breakthroughs... They also drive a lot of marginal 'hype' drugs

As an aside, I notice the government finally decided to normalize the expected lifespan of it's boutique malady; AIDS. Guess it got a bit too far out off the reservation, or, ran its intended course.
What an absolutely fabulous designer-disease that thing was... It only really hit incontinent breeders, intravenous drug users, homosexuals. The collateral damage (ie- Ryan Whites) was minimal. Yeah, that was an 'accident of nature'. LOL.

[FCP Bob]

This chart really shows where all the money is being spent and where the US spends a lot more than other countries.

[colonel Feathers]

FCP Bob, on 09 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

This chart really shows where all the money is being spent and where the US spends a lot more than other countries.

SO this shows that universal healthcare is a bad deal for those under 60 /

[JustDoIt]

Obama Regulations over 7 feet tall stacked up. More to come.

https://twitter.com/...5271040/photo/1

[AmScray]

Ahhh yes, the old Milton Friedman tack... Take all the laws on paper and stack them up to show how insanely bureaucratic we've become.
A compelling argument in the macro- when he's comparing generations of laws and how insane it got somewhere around the 1930's- but not very compelling when it comes to passing a massive new law to address a massive problem.

First off, you knew it would look like that because leftists are faggots who love bureaucracy on the basis of believing the more Rube Goldberg'ish their creation, the higher demonstration of their 'intellect'. Ironically enough, true genius (which lies in elegance) is often written off as 'simplistic' by the academic assholes. (I swear, 'academic minded' people are the greatest cancer civilization has ever known)

But really, it's a gigantic system with a lot of moving parts that has to integrate with the gigantic cocktrain of bueaucracy that this country has already become. Think that was going to be simple?

I can draft a health bill that's a lot shorter. Perhaps three or four sentences.

1. All Americans are entitled to free health care as a basic human right.
2. A flat tax will be levied on wages, fried chicken, video games, discretionary consumption and licensed attorneys to pay for it all.
3. End of life care will be capped, Right to Die with dignity is in full effect. If you want to prolong the inevitable, go ahead but the taxpayers aren't paying for it. You want out quick, here's the phenobarbital, on the house.
4. Anyone who doesn't like this plan is under arrest.

But I don't think the American public would accept that.

[colonel Feathers]

Another fun anecdote to Obama care.

A Bakery with 95 employees wil either have to shut down, fire half its workforce, or lose half its yearly profits to comply with this lovely bill.

[colonel Feathers]

AmScray, on 21 March 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

Ahhh yes, the old Milton Friedman tack... Take all the laws on paper and stack them up to show how insanely bureaucratic we've become.
A compelling argument in the macro- when he's comparing generations of laws and how insane it got somewhere around the 1930's- but not very compelling when it comes to passing a massive new law to address a massive problem.

First off, you knew it would look like that because leftists are faggots who love bureaucracy on the basis of believing the more Rube Goldberg'ish their creation, the higher demonstration of their 'intellect'. Ironically enough, true genius (which lies in elegance) is often written off as 'simplistic' by the academic assholes. (I swear, 'academic minded' people are the greatest cancer civilization has ever known)

But really, it's a gigantic system with a lot of moving parts that has to integrate with the gigantic cocktrain of bueaucracy that this country has already become. Think that was going to be simple?

I can draft a health bill that's a lot shorter. Perhaps three or four sentences.

1. All Americans are entitled to free health care as a basic human right.
2. A flat tax will be levied on wages, fried chicken, video games, discretionary consumption and licensed attorneys to pay for it all.
3. End of life care will be capped, Right to Die with dignity is in full effect. If you want to prolong the inevitable, go ahead but the taxpayers aren't paying for it. You want out quick, here's the phenobarbital, on the house.
4. Anyone who doesn't like this plan is under arrest.

But I don't think the American public would accept that.

Im surprisingly OK with all that, cept number 1. Unless the govt would make all education and training to become a doctor totally free. Why should anyone go into lifelong debt, pay rediculous insurance rates, give up ten years of life studying and training, just so some slacker with bad breath and an opium addiction can get free care.