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can’t win on the net, but win in brick & mortar?


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I have been playing poker on the net for about 1½ year and have lost about $15000. I have not kept track of my hourly rate, just my losses. I do however keep track of my hourly rate in brick and mortar rooms. A summary of my logs is at the bottom of this post. I asked a couple of very good brick and mortar players (ROCKS), how they do on line. They say that they can’t win at online poker ring games either and have given it up. Playing in a brick and mortar room, one of the Rocks made close to $100000 playing a mix of 15/30, 10/20, and 5/10, and the other Rock won around $80000 playing 10/20 and 15/30 only. When I am at a table full of people I don’t know and someone brings up online poker I always make the comment “I can’t win at online poker”, everyone at the table generally concurres that they can’t either. Oh sorry, there always seems to be one person says they do win at online poker. That person generally turns out to be the worst poker player at the table. LOLTo me, it seems like every poker player that I meet can’t win online ring games. Thought there are Urban legends who apparently do. I have yet to meet these people.However when I first started playing online ring games I won and won big. Then I managed to bleed it all back. Plus more. When I got tired or I should say pissed off at that site I switched to another site and started winning again. Then I would lose it all back plus more. This seemed to be a pattern..lol Am I running into collusion, bots, or what ever? Just seems to me that individuals who play only one seat at a table just can’t win.When I have absolutely nothing to do (can’t find a real game) I still play some online, but only sit and go’s or MTT’s now. When I am not board and concentrate I do well at these. Unfortunately, the money I win at these games I sometimes tend to lose playing ring games, can’t help myself. This happens because I have nothing to do and get board waiting for the next MTT.I have been playing poker for about 10 years, and will play 10/20, 15/30, 20/40, and even 40/80 limit games (that one make my blood run) and will be profitable in brick and mortar room. Getting a feeling and watching people is the big part of my game. I am not a great mathematician but have a good grasp on the odds. My game of choice is 2/4 or 5/10 no limit. I play 2/4 mostly because this is the game that is most played where I live. I play only on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and the occasional weekday. Plus I love live Multi Table Tournaments with a $100, $300, $500 buy in. I have a real job and won’t quit it to play poker. It would make my mother to worry too much about me. LOL She does not understand the game. Plus poker is enjoyment for me not a job. Thanks for taking the time to read this post. Opinions and comments would be great.For those interested here is my 2005 summary: Online -ev is $15000. Brick and Mortar +ev is $47000 At 2/4 and some 5/10 NL:- I have 512 hours of play with an hourly rate of $46.18/ hour. Total of $23,644At 10/20 and 15/30 Limit: - I have 277 hours of play in at hourly rate of $42.72/hour. Total, $11,833Tournament play:- 112.5 hours at $103.60/ hour. For a Total of $ 11,655Therefore my total earnings this year is $47,132 - $15000 = $32,132

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Then your game is defective. You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.

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Maybe you should play even higher limits because then the players won't outdraw you as much. Okay, that's not my advice, but it seems to have worked for this guy, who's on one hell of a variance upswing.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...der=asc&start=0 :roll: :wink: :!:

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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
How do you explain the Rock's I talked about. They are poker veterans. They both play very very smart poker. Some of us refer to one of them as Jesus, only he has read hair, beard and glasses. lol Great guy.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
How do you explain the Rock's I talked about. They are poker veterans. They both play very very smart poker. Some of us refer to one of them as Jesus, only he has read hair, beard and glasses. lol Great guy.
I don't think you read Chopper88 reply quite right, he was insinuating that you are good enough to beat the players at BM and not to beat the online players...the rocks are obviously good enough to do both.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
How do you explain the Rock's I talked about. They are poker veterans. They both play very very smart poker. Some of us refer to one of them as Jesus, only he has read hair, beard and glasses. lol Great guy.
I don't think you read Chopper88 reply quite right, he was insinuating that you are good enough to beat the players at BM and not to beat the online players...the rocks are obviously good enough to do both.
Sorry in the original post. I mentioned that they too can not win at online poker either.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
How do you explain the Rock's I talked about. They are poker veterans. They both play very very smart poker. Some of us refer to one of them as Jesus, only he has read hair, beard and glasses. lol Great guy.
If he can't win online, his game is defective too and he's not as good as he thinks he is. You can beat a lot of B+M games by being a weak tight nit, you can't get away with those bad habits higher than 2/4 online. Just the fact that you call these guys rocks and think that's a good thing shows that you're missing the point here.These games are beatable and a lot of guys are beating them for a lot more money than your buddy the rock that can't even beat 5/10.
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I believe he said the rocks are saying they loose online as well.
Loose isn't gonna win either most of the time. I dunno, saying a guy is a rock generally evokes the idea of a nitty tight guy, not a thinking (but still relatively tight) player.
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I have tried many different approches to the game and have not found a succesfull one. I have played some very good poker players some who have made the money in the world series and WPT events. I do respect there play, i believe my game is better and they are not as good as the rocks I talked about.I guess I just have to see a person to get a feel for the hand they are playing.The rocks are grinders.., they don't play tournaments.

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I have tried many different approches to the game and have not found a succesfull one.  I have played some very good poker players some who have made the money in the world series and WPT events.  I do respect there play, i believe my game is better and they are not as good as the rocks I talked about.I guess I just have to see a person to get a feel for the hand they are playing.The rocks are grinders.., they don't play tournaments.
Multi-table tourneys have a huge luck factor.Again, if you can't beat the online games you just aren't that good. Seriously, you can make a better hourly rate at 3/6 limit holdem online. Crazy, huh? AND you don't have to spend all day in a casino. AND when you learn to beat the online game you'll be better than you are now and will be able to beat the live games even more.Depends how good you wanna get and how much money you want to make I guess.
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Funny you should talk about the 3/6 limit game. I do manage to win at that. When I win a decent bankroll there. I always find myself at the 10/20 or 15/30 then lose it. Sometimes i get my roll up to $3000 or $4000 but then I seem to bleed it all back. I played tight, loose aggressive, tight aggressive. etc.. The hourly rate at 3/6 is $50?... are you serious about that, I didn't notice.

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Funny you should talk about the 3/6 limit game.  I do manage to win at that.  When I win a decent bankroll there.  I always find myself at the 10/20 or 15/30 then lose it.  Sometimes i get my roll up to $3000 or $4000 but then I seem to bleed it all back.  I played tight, loose aggressive, tight aggressive. etc..  The hourly rate at 3/6 is $50?... are you serious about that, I didn't notice.
Yeah, mine was at least. It's not really that hard (plays like 10/20 or 15/30 live I'd say, sometimes harder.) I'd rather not talk about it here though, but I added you to my MSN list so if you want you can hit me up there.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
You're insane. The players are much much worse online. There's obviously nothing wrong with his game if he's showing a profit of 47,000 in a B&M.My guess is you don't concentrate as well when you play online. I find I run into the same problems. I'm a winning player in B&M's but I suck at online. My guess is because there are so many more distractions when you're at home. You can watch tv, play with the dog, play with the wife...whatever, the point is, none of that is at a B&M. I regularly show a profit in the 20/40 game I play along with the live 2/4 NL game. However, my online skills are completely lacking which is why I don't play higher than .12/.25 NL. I find that my swings are MUCH MUCH higher there, and I'd much rather not risk any significant portion of my bankroll just to play online. I find I'm distracted easier and watching a rerun of the Simpsons while I'm playing online is -EV. I know it's a leak but if I'm at home, I want to be comfortable. TV on and girlfriend running around half naked, I'm not gonna play as solid as I am in a B&M. My advice? Stick to your B&M game and keep a signifigant portion of your bankroll for that. Don't bother playing online until you've become the master of your dormain. So to speak anyway.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
You're insane. The players are much much worse online. There's obviously nothing wrong with his game if he's showing a profit of 47,000 in a B&M.
That's ridiculous, especially at the 10/20 and 15/30 level.Live 3/6 plays worse than .50/1 most of the time.
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Then your game is defective.  You're doing something wrong and arent as good as you think you are.B+M is easier to beat by far (worse players), so you're good enough to beat that but your game isn't robust enough to beat an online game.
You're insane. The players are much much worse online. There's obviously nothing wrong with his game if he's showing a profit of 47,000 in a B&M.My guess is you don't concentrate as well when you play online. I find I run into the same problems. I'm a winning player in B&M's but I suck at online. My guess is because there are so many more distractions when you're at home. You can watch tv, play with the dog, play with the wife...whatever, the point is, none of that is at a B&M.
I think you might be right about that one. I always have the TV on while i am playing or running to the washroom, fridge, or answereing the phone while playing etc. Too many distractions I guess.I just recently played a Party poker tournament and finished in 4th winning $1040. That tournament I won the satelite was down, so no TV that time. LOL Then I lost it all later that week at the 10/20 table.
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And that's the thing-It's not very hard to beat 3/6 limit HE online for $50 / hr. You could make more money while risking less if you learned to beat the online game.Now imagine you can beat 5/10. Whoo.
only way ur pullin this is if ur 3 or 4 tabling
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If you are playing online, I would suggest using some sort of tracking software to see where your money leaks are. Just a thought
I don't use one. Any suggestions?
Pokertracker.Also the 10/20 15/30 games live are much worse players then the 10/20 15/30 online. The downside to playing live of course is that you dont get as many hands in so beating 15/30 live would be the equivalent of beating 3/6 online. My point is don't play those high of limits online. You'll get crushed. Play 3/6 or maybe even 2/4 to start and buy Pokertracker stat.
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