64 replies to this topic

[DanielNegreanu]

Thanks for sharing... Stories like that I often find more profound than stories of Christians who grew up the "right way" all along.For a guy like Paul, to go from being an absolutely horrible human being to what he became, is a powerful testament to SOMETHING amazing happening in his life.I'm always amazed at the strories of lives being turned around... it's pretty awesome.

[keith crime]

Hey if you improved your life fine - the problem i had with your post and which you ignore is that your post says you have to do it just like me or you are going to burn in hell. Fix your own life. Try to help others - fine. But don't damn everyone who disagrees with you - not to mention people who aren't exposed to Jesus to eternal damnation.

[Balloon guy]

You can ask directions to Las Vegas, and there may be muliple 'ways' but eventually you got to get on the I15 or you ain't gonnna make it. Not narrow minded to point this out, just the way it is.If God said the only way into heaven was wearing pink shirts and eating vegetables, that's the way it is, it's His world, we don't get to put our two cents in.If I had the winning lotto numbers and told you in order to win you HAVE to use these numbers you could come up with many arguements about why the lotto commision is so narrow minded, why they insist you pay a dollar and fill in exactly these numbers, but all your arguements are pointless, they make the rules and if you want to do it differently, don't expect to win the big prize.I personally have never shoved anything down anyone's throat, and have never seen anyone do this. It's more of a cliche' way of saying I don't want to believe.

[keith crime]

Not at all look at his original post - he says accept jesus or go to hellWell hey he could be right but any religion that damns a person that never is exposed to Jesus at all to eternal damnation is not moral - its the opposite of moral it is contemptable. If that is the only way to get into heavan i dont want to go

[keith crime]

Well in actuality there are a ton of people who think their lives have been changed by AllahSome of them are as intolerant as youHere's what drives me nuts You just said - if i'm wrong i have nothing to loseYou didn't change your life for the better because you wanted to be a good person - you did it because you thought it would be a good way to get into heaven. Someone who is good for the purpose of getting something out of it - isnt that good at allYou should be a good father just because its the right thing to doI seriously doubt jesus ever dropped into your living room - in all likelihood a decent support group would have made you a better personIf you need threats to make you a good person fine - but stop telling people that disagree with you that they are going to hellIf you are right and someday you are playing foosball up in the clouds with Martin Luthor feel free to have a laugh at me -Just because god created the universe doesn't mean he is fair and worth supporting - if your god is saying accept jesus or go to hell even if you have never even heard of jesus - then he is an unjust god and should be opposed

[crowTrobot]

keith crime, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 12:07 PM, said:

Just because god created the universe doesn't mean he is fair and worth supporting - if your god is saying accept jesus or go to hell even if you have never even heard of jesus - then he is an unjust god and should be opposed

the contradictory nature of the whole christian plan of salvation is the best evidence there is that the christian god is a fabrication, and the only christian response is the one the OP gave - "man cannot comprehend the ways of god, so don't try" (cult speak).

[Mattnxtc]

crowTrobot, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 12:56 PM, said:

the contradictory nature of the whole christian plan of salvation is the best evidence there is that the christian god is a fabrication, and the only christian response is the one the OP gave - "man cannot comprehend the ways of god, so don't try" (cult speak).

Um wow...contradictory plan of salvation? please explain that one crow... And you are so very wrong on ur other nonsense. "man cannot comprehend the ways of God so dont try?" Why do you make that nonsense up? IM at least glad ur arent claiming to be unbiased. What is it that a scientist says when there is someting unexplained? "We dont know yet but maybe one day science will tell us" Do you see your hypocricy? Man doesnt understand all that God has for us. We accept that just as you say THE EXACT SAME THING about science. Nowhere do you see anybody saying well we are just gonna try... We are gonna live in our little bubble and wait until we get to God. Some of the leading scientists are christians...but ur right we dont do anything but sit there.

[missIdaho]

keith crime, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 3:00 PM, said:

Not at all look at his original post - he says accept jesus or go to hell

And?We as Christians believe that it is through Christ that we are saved. It is through his scarifice that our sins are forgiven and if we choose to believe and accept him we will not have to suffer eternal damnation. That is what Christinanity is all about. It isn't a threat. It is a base reality. If you choose not to believe this, that is your choice and no one is forcing it upon you. It always confuses me how there are those that don't believe but are so offended that we believe they will go to hell. If you don't believe in it, why does it even matter to you? We all have a right to our own beliefs. I have just as much right to believe as you have not to believe.

[herokid7]

Here's the thing: There is no such thing as Two truths. There can be only one truth. If you ever hear two people arguing over something you know that they have two different sides to the story, they may both be strecthing the truth some, but in reality only one thing actually happened. One truth. This is why I believe Jesus is the only way to Heaven. To me that is a perfectly logical explanation of why all paths don't lead to Heaven. There's only one truth. See? i didn't even use scripture even though I could have(Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes through the Father except through me."). And I haven't seen one Christian ever "force their beliefs" on anyone. I completely agree that if a Christian forces you to accept Jesus at gunpoint, then he is in the wrong. But, We're not trying to do that, we are trying to help you understand that God is offering you a gift, one that none of us deserve.

[keith crime]

accept me or go to hellsounds like a really generous guynice gift

[Balloon guy]

Or you could word it:You're heading down to hell, so I'll make a really easy way for you to escape it.phraseology makes a difference, and can be a cop out. For both sides I agree, I know plenty of Christians who barely know what they believe, but just because you phrase it in a negative doesn't mean it is a negative.I do agree that the what about the people that haven't heard is a tough question. But I serve a good God, so He's probably figured that out, luckily there won't be an IQ test to get to heaventhat last line is like lighter fluid I know,flame on

[crowTrobot]

Mattnxtc, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 2:56 PM, said:

Um wow...contradictory plan of salvation? please explain that one crow...

pretty simple.the majority of humans throughout history won't accept the christian god (because in their environment they find no reason to believe in him or because they believe in something else, *not* because they believe in and reject him). this leaves only 3 alternatives.1. the christian god exists but doesn't care about the salvation of individuals (or we would be in an environment where more WOULD find reason to believe in him) contradicting the bible.2. the christian god exists but is not all-powerful contradicting the bible.3. the christian god does not exist. the latter is by far the most plausable to anyone capable of rational thought.

Quote

you are so very wrong on ur other nonsense. "man cannot comprehend the ways of God so dont try?"

someone stated that in so many words as a response to a question about why hell is necessary, and it's an obvious contrived cop out requiring assumption that god exists in the first place.

Balloon guy, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 5:56 PM, said:

luckily there won't be an IQ test to get to heaven

lol too easy

[herokid7]

To answer the question of those that never heard about Christ. I personally believe that everybody will get a chance to hear about the gospel at some point in their lives. That's why Christians are sending missionaries left and right to the places that haven't heard. Plus, I believe God's grace is far beyond what we can imagine. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that have never heard the gospel when they die do go to Heaven. Like babies that die before they know right from wrong and are too young to make a decision, they go straight to the throne room of God.As for the argument that God has given us an ultimatum: "Accept me or go to Hell" I want to tell a story. There once was a city slicker who decided to take a vacation to the country, he had never been there before and found the differences in lifestyles amazing. As he was driving by a farm he saw something strange. There was a farmer out in the field, trying to help a cow give birth to a baby calf. The problem was, the calf was being birthed hindend first. The farmer knew He had to work hard or else the calf would die, he saw the city slicker by the fence watching in awe. The farmer called out to him,"Come here and give me a hand!" The city slicker shouted back, " I don't know anything about cows!" "Just come help me!" The farmer replied. So, the city slicker jumped the fence and helped the farmer deliver the calf successfully. As they were walking toward the barn to get washed up, the farmer asked the city slicker if he had any questions. "Well, just one, that has been bothering me since I first pulled up." he said. "Shoot." the farmer said. "Well, how fast was that calf running when it ran into the back of that cow?"The point is two people can look at the same thing and see two completely different things. Where I see the path to Heaven as the ultimate sign of God's love for us, some people, see it as as an ultimatum. But, it's not an ultimatum, it's not even an escape route from Hell, it's about living life here on earth to the best possible extent.

[crowTrobot]

herokid7, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 6:56 PM, said:

I believe God's grace is far beyond what we can imagine. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that have never heard the gospel when they die do go to Heaven. Like babies that die before they know right from wrong and are too young to make a decision, they go straight to the throne room of God.

that is NOT what the bible says. if you are going to personally mold god into what you think he should be what's the point of believing specifically in the christian god at all? why not just believe in a generic higher power that somehow encompasses all religions?

[herokid7]

crowTrobot, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 7:24 PM, said:

that is NOT what the bible says. if you are going to personally mold god into what you think he should be what's the point of believing specifically in the christian god at all? why not just believe in a generic higher power that somehow encompasses all religions?

As I said, that is my personal belief, as that is how i interpret the scriptures to the best of my knowledge. It might be wrong, it's just my opinion.

[missIdaho]

keith crime, on Thursday, March 9th, 2006, 8:23 PM, said:

accept me or go to hellsounds like a really generous guynice gift

He was generous enough to give you life and free will. It is a nice gift.

[keith crime]

According to these guys my life doesn't mean anything other than as a sort of test to see if I will accept JesusIt sounds like he only gave me free will so if I didn't follow his word he could damn me forever

[KowboyKoop]

So a child in Africa is born and dies when he is 6 months old. This happens all the time in Africa. Is each one of those souls burning in hell right now?? If so, then wouldn't that be GOD'S fault for not even giving him a CHANCE to accept Jesus??? That 6 month old baby never at any point in his life had the capability to "accept Jesus," so I guess God just screwed him over. Sucks to be him I guess, right??