29 replies to this topic

[Fayvren]

Quote

That's the point ... if he doesn't have the K or J then he may very well have the best hand and he would earn that extra 1000.00 or the pot may just get folded to him ... but by putting all his money in the pot all he's doing is making sure that if he's wrong that he loses all his money. If he bets 1000.00 and gets raised he's either playing a genius or he's beat. See what I mean? matt

Im confused here... If the guy doesnt have a K or a J then the only hand that wins the whole pot is AA. That's the only "bigger pair" hand that beats you.It makes no sense for someone playing either J AK, KK or AA to bet at the flop then check the turn AND the river. The Bet , Check, Check is enough to tell you that you probably have the best hand... playing the board and splitting the pot with the other person.The reason betting 1000 is a bad move IMO is that if he's going to call, he's going to push all in and then that extra 700 commits you to call too. With larger stacks you wont push all in, but here with stacks relatively the same amount as whats in the pot, push and take the pot.The only way you "win" this hand is by betting and making the other guy fold. If he calls you dont win anythign except half the 100 that was limped plus the blinds. The entire idea is that DN does not want to get called and the best way to prevent that is to put the other guys entire tournament on the line. Based on our read we should be pretty certain we're sharing this pot... so why not push and make him fold.

[shezzavague]

mtm1980 said:

someone help me here ...i said bet 1000. a value bet. if he had the final 7 so be it ... also he was first in early position when he bet which would tell me too big ones. AK perhaps or another pair. It would seem to me that he either had QQ or JJ or something or he did have the AK. If he did have the AK he would just call down and take it. If he had the smaller pocket pairs he may fold it down to a 1000 bet thinking it was some sort of trap and he was facing a K or the final 7 himself.

Can no-one spot that the confusion comes because you have mis-read the board?7s are irrelevant, 7s don't improve the board.And how can he have JJ when there are three Js on the flop!

[Fayvren]

Quote

Can no-one spot that the confusion comes because you have mis-read the board? 7s are irrelevant, 7s don't improve the board. And how can he have JJ when there are three Js on the flop!

This is what I thought too when I saw his reply... It seems like the poster is completely misreading the board, or doesnt understand that only the best 5 play... I cant quite figure it out either. Hence the ensuing discussion makes no sense at all.

[shezzavague]

even if he thinks more than 5 cards play, he can't think there are five Jacks in the deck!

[DESSERTLADY]

Well I really blew this one.I voted bet 1000. I need to get back to my reading and absorbing more than I have lately.

[LPY2005]

This was a fantastic question, especially since I answered it wrong. I said check, fully expecting to split the pot and being satisfied with that. The way the hand was played the chances of being beat are extremely remote. If the guy is holding AA, a J, or a K, he would have to value bet the river, otherwise he is leaving money out there as a small bet would get called expecting to split. Here, the fact that Daniel has position is key to taking this whole pot. This teaches me that I shouldn't be always be satisfied with a split when: 1. the chances of being beat are remote, and 2. gaining the whole pot instead of half will greatly improve my chip stack. Thanks DN, I learned a lot from this hand.

[BCsparky]

Isn't your opponent more likely to put you on a steal if you go all-in?Would you move all-in against an unknown opponent if you did have a Jack or King in your hand? Maybe I'm just trying to overthink the situation.

[shpaget]

BCsparky said:

Isn't your opponent more likely to put you on a steal if you go all-in?Would you move all-in against an unknown opponent if you did have a Jack or King in your hand? Maybe I'm just trying to overthink the situation.

SOME opponents yes...but MOST won't.Most will not want to risk all their chips for a split pot and assume they are beat. The fact that it's a split pot means the villain has to be twice as sure he's not behind than if he could win outright.If you don't bet all the opponent's chips many opponents will auto-call knowing that they are still in the tournament if they lose the hand.If I had a Jack or King I'd probably bet half the villain's chipstack.

[Coyote18]

I know this one is very old but I am just going through these.I think the real question here is why he wouldn't call you? The only thing he can think you have is AK but if you did, you didn't play it very well or how most people would. Putting myself in his shoes, I don't know how he didn't call. You bet out strong after the flop, slowed down with position when the K hit and then went all in? It doesn't add up to me.