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Getting The Most Out Of A Flopped Set


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Saturday night 30+3 460 entrants on UB.Shortly before the second break, blinds are $150-$300. I am in the BB and I am the chip leader with $16K+ in chips (I believe there were about 120 left). It folds to the SB who completes. I raise to $900 with Q-Q and he calls (leaving him approx $6,200). My read on him is that he is pretty tight. He has folded his SB to me several times, once showing K-9 off. So when he calls I figure he has something reasonable.The flop comes A-Q-6 rainbow. He checks. I consider betting, but I do believe he would fold unless he has a big Ace and I do not think he does, and I only need to worry about a gut shot strt so I check behind him. The turn is a 7 putting two clubs on the board and he leads out for $1,200. I push all-in.Thoughts on the check on the flop and the push on the turn??? Is this the best way to max value? How might you have played it?

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Saturday night 30+3 460 entrants on UB.Shortly before the second break, blinds are $150-$300. I am in the BB and I am the chip leader with $16K+ in chips (I believe there were about 120 left). It folds to the SB who completes. I raise to $900 with Q-Q and he calls (leaving him approx $6,200). My read on him is that he is pretty tight. He has folded his SB to me several times, once showing K-9 off. So when he calls I figure he has something reasonable.The flop comes A-Q-6 rainbow. He checks. I consider betting, but I do believe he would fold unless he has a big Ace and I do not think he does, and I only need to worry about a gut shot strt so I check behind him. The turn is a 7 putting two clubs on the board and he leads out for $1,200. I push all-in.Thoughts on the check on the flop and the push on the turn??? Is this the best way to max value? How might you have played it?
I'd just raise the turn to about 3000.That gives him 1800 to call to win 6000...so just over 3 to 1.If he's on a flush draw he's over 4:1 to hit (and one of his clubs gives you a boat)...so it would be a mistake for him to call.You want him to call....the push makes it least likely.Bet 3000-3500 - now he's only risking 1/3 to 1/2 of his remaining chips, and more inclined to call, and no matter what he has (except a straight flush draw) he is making a mistake to call you.He's also more likely to call a river bet even if he has an ace that doesn't improve.
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Saturday night 30+3 460 entrants on UB.Thoughts on the check on the flop and the push on the turn??? Is this the best way to max value? How might you have played it?
With an ace on board I think I would have lead the flop. With his lead on the turn it seems to bm he was checking with the intention of check raising you. He may have just been taking a stab with a probe bet on the turn but I think he had an ace. If the flop didn't have an ace and was still harmless I would check, but with the ace on board against a tight opponent I like betting. If he doesn't have an ace he folds all day anyway. If he calls or raises you know he has an ace and you find the best way to get all his chips in the middle. I would agree with shp that a more moderate raise on the turn would have been better than the push. You want the call badly so tempt him with a better price.
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First, I would bet 1/2 the pot on the flop. That would be the most consistent bluffing pattern for him to assume that you would do because since you raised pre-flop, he knows you have to bet, hit or miss. SO if he hits, he's definitely C/R. He'll also most likely overplay any top pair all-in, and then you'll bust him. I think he wanted you to bet here, don't dissapoint him. Plus betting the flop gives us information, because if he picks up a secondary draw on the turn, we'll have no idea what it is.Plus you do have a gut-shot straight to worry about as J10/K10 could be a hand he potentially has (and since he is a tight opponent, I doubt he'd fire out on just a gut-shot on the turn, unless it was the Jc10c or the Kc10c). But since you have been raising his SB alot, he could have been "slowplaying" any ace here. But say you check the flop and then he bets his 1200 on the turn, I think you should then just smooth call. The only way I'd raise is if I was sure he had Jc10c, Kc10c, or any two random clubs (because we need to protect) because any raise will scare a baby Ace away (or a sick case Queen) due to your sandbagging pattern. He even might have a pair of 8's and think that they are now good. Then you can milk him on the river for an extra crying call bet since we will have position. By raising all-in here on the turn, you scare him away and make him think that his A-5 offsuit is no good.

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im okay with the check on the flop b/c to me it gives him that extra chance to then think your raise is a bluff/hit something on the turn like pairing his 7 to go with his 6 or A. i think a bet of 3000 is solid maybe a little more, i wouldnt push there unless you really think he's gonna call, his bet looks more like a semi stab

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Actuary,Any more thoughts? How much of a bet on the flop? Do you always bet a set or will you ever slow play it and when?
I would bet your usual continuation bet here.If he's tight, he's playing or not, with that Ace on board.Given his preflop call, there's a decent chance he is trying to trap you, and is hoping for a bet here.So, pot is 1800.I'd probably go 1200.And re-raise all in if he c/r you.I would check this if I were SB and flopped a set and you had raised preflop.I might check the flop if an ace had not hit and I checked a lot.Personally, I get many of my chips/wins from counter-punching when I let small pots go...and then re-steal or trap in big pots. SB sounds tight like me, and may be looking to teach you a lesson here. Let him.Checking now smells too funny and makes less against tight players.
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I would bet your usual continuation bet here.If he's tight, he's playing or not, with that Ace on board.Given his preflop call, there's a decent chance he is trying to trap you, and is hoping for a bet here.So, pot is 1800.I'd probably go 1200.And re-raise all in if he c/r you.I would check this if I were SB and flopped a set and you had raised preflop.I might check the flop if an ace had not hit and I checked a lot.Personally, I get many of my chips/wins from counter-punching when I let small pots go...and then re-steal or trap in big pots. SB sounds tight like me, and may be looking to teach you a lesson here. Let him.Checking now smells too funny and makes less against tight players.
Thanks.
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The expectation among decent players is that you will bet that flop no matter what you hold. So if you bet 1/2 to 1/3 the pot on the flop, the SB will be less likely to put you on a hand. Most players check when out of positon to a raiser, and most preflop raisers make a continuation bet on the flop. Anything that varies from this is suspicious.His bet on the turn may be simply be a probe, to check if you have an underpair, or he may have connected in some way. All in is excessive, a moderate raise prices out all the draws anyway.

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I would agree with everyone who says to bet the flop if an ace didn't show up. Since it did however, I like the check there. If our opponent does not have an ace, the majority of the time they will fold to the flop bet, negating our monster hand (flopped trips). I wouldn't push the turn there. A moderate raise allows him to make a mistake, a push just scares him away, showing that you made the mistake.

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this is umm...pretty simple. under what scenarios are you going to get action? if he has an ace, or maybe a middle pair. just bet the flop and when he check raises you can maybe let out a little more rope and just call, hoping he'll shove on the turn. but hoping he'll make a strong second best hand on the turn is silly.

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this is umm...pretty simple. under what scenarios are you going to get action? if he has an ace, or maybe a middle pair. just bet the flop and when he check raises you can maybe let out a little more rope and just call, hoping he'll shove on the turn. hoping he'll make a strong second best hand on the turn is silly.
I disagree, mainly due to the size of our opponents stack (its fairly small, but not miniscule). With a larger stack for our opponent, I would agree.
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I disagree, mainly due to the size of our opponents stack (its fairly small, but not miniscule). With a larger stack for our opponent, I would agree.
what is there to disagree with? put him on a range of hands and decide how likely it is that he will improve from a hand that won't give you action on the flop to a hand that will give you action on the turn. or are you hoping he just shoves his chips at you out of boredom?
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what is there to disagree with? put him on a range of hands and decide how likely it is that he will improve from a hand that won't give you action on the flop to a hand that will give you action on the turn. or are you hoping he just shoves his chips at you out of boredom?
My thinking is that a medium-small stack will not continue at all unless they have an ace should we bet on the flop here. However, by giving them a free turn card, they may catch enough that they decide to make a decision for all if not the majority of their chips. The ace is the ultimate scare card in these situations...am I the only person who thinks that? Remove the ace from the equation, and I agree completely with betting out.
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My thinking is that a medium-small stack will not continue at all unless they have an ace should we bet on the flop here. However, by giving them a free turn card, they may catch enough that they decide to make a decision for all if not the majority of their chips. The ace is the ultimate scare card in these situations...am I the only person who thinks that? Remove the ace from the equation, and I agree completely with betting out.
Try Level 3 thinking sometime and see how that works out for you.
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Rocket,the Ace is villains most likely card that he will play back at us with.it's much more likely he'll call with an Ace or stick with his pocket pair than it is he'll improve on the turn enough and often enough to give us enough action to compensate for the missed chance to build a pot now.are you a winning player in NL tournies?

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Rocket,the Ace is villains most likely card that he will play back at us with.it's much more likely he'll call with an Ace or stick with his pocket pair than it is he'll improve on the turn enough and often enough to give us enough action to compensate for the missed chance to build a pot now.are you a winning player in NL tournies?
lolI agree completely that the ace is what they will play back at us with, IF they have one. It is when they don't have an ace (which I don't think they will since they just limped, same with a pocket pair) that checking here will allow us to get the most out of a flopped set (the question posed by the OP in the title). There are relatively few scare cards here.
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lolI agree completely that the ace is what they will play back at us with, IF they have one. It is when they don't have an ace (which I don't think they will since they just limped, same with a pocket pair) that checking here will allow us to get the most out of a flopped set (the question posed by the OP in the title). There are relatively few scare cards here.
Alright, apparently you did not take my suggestion.As the TPITW, give me a set of hands here that you would raise preflop in position and then check on the flop when checked to you on this board?
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if he has an ace, he likes it enough to play back at you on this flop - if he didn't like his ace, he wouldn't have called your raise preflop.If he doesn't have an ace, he has a pocket pair. The only chance you're getting his stack now is if he hits a set.Basically, in conclusion, bet the flop.

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lolI agree completely that the ace is what they will play back at us with, IF they have one. It is when they don't have an ace (which I don't think they will since they just limped, same with a pocket pair) that checking here will allow us to get the most out of a flopped set (the question posed by the OP in the title). There are relatively few scare cards here.
Rocket:tight villain.Won't always raise preflop with Ace-rag; but sure as heck may try to trap our aggressive ***. and are you?
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