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Should I Play It Another Way?


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Middles stages in a 90 person sng, top 9 pay with a very top heavy format, I have cashed in these before but because of my weak middle stage play I usually come into the final table on fumes and make 8th or 7th until i get taken out with 78 that has odds to call my all in with a short stackI have made a couple good hands and made a couple calls that I usually don't make to get the stack here, I am presently sitting 7th in chips with 37 people left and want to keep the ball rolling here in order to make a stronger showing at the final table and put myself in a chip position to really start leaning on the smaller stacks and stealing their blindsI raise normally on the button or in later position about 50% of the time if it is limped or unopened, don't do it with 83 os, but JT and Ax I will so my table image should not be one of a maniac of any sortVillan had played some pretty abc poker so farI considered laying down to the limp re-raise, let me know if this is the only way to play it in your eyesFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 3+0.30 Tournament, 80/160 Blinds (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comVillan (MP2) (t12426)CO (t2285)Hero (Button) (t11750)SB (t4680)BB (t5678)UTG (t1322)UTG+1 (t3113)MP1 (t4210)Hero's M: 48.96Preflop: Hero is Button with K :D, K :ts2 folds, MP1 calls t160, Villan calls t160, 1 fold, Hero bets t800, 1 fold, BB calls t640, MP1 calls t640, Villan raises to t4080, Hero raises to t11750 (All-In), 2 folds, Villan calls t7670Flop: (t25180) 7 :club:, 3 :5c, J :3h(2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: (t25180) 2 :qh(2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t25180) 3 :4h(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: t25180

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Totally standard. I cant see villain limping behind a limper with AA, so expect to see QQ/JJ/ AK hands a lot.Why play it fancy when you can get it in like 4-1 ahead. I play it the same dude :club:

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Gooch--What other ways are you thinking that you could have played this? Are you thinking you could have just called the 4080 and kept one or both of the small stacks in?

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Gooch--What other ways are you thinking that you could have played this? Are you thinking you could have just called the 4080 and kept one or both of the small stacks in?
like i said i considered folding as it smelled like aces, was weirded out but the limp after a limper though, if it was an utg limp then rs i would have really thought about iton occasion i will flat and then push the non ace flop just in case of AK, but with the other two callers in there i was worried it would give them the price and then i have to see it 4 way which i don't want to play post flop with KK unless the flop comes KKA, too many times I'm seeing TT 88 77 etc hit their set and I'm drawing two outsi guess i'm talking more theoritical because of my M, where we are in the tourney and my relative chip stack to the other players, this is about the only player at the table i don't want to play a big pot with here, and other one and i wouldn't have even posted the hand
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The question is..do you think your opponent would make such a play with Queens? or AK? You stated he's played pretty solid poker thus far so you have to give him credit for a premium hand. Alot of times in these small tourneys (i've played quite a few) players will limp early with a monster because some idiot will always raise in a later position. So you ask yourself...does he have the hand you dread? The ridiculous bet tells me that after limping he's got a monster. It's difficult to lay down Kings here, but if the guy has been playing rock solid cards you gotta give him credit. You still have a very respectable chip stack. I wouldn't want to get involved here.

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I'm not convinced this is aces every time, mostly because of that limp after the limp. And the blinds aren't THAT big where a couple of limpers will induce a late position bluff every time. If the blinds were around 125-250 with antes, then I'd be more skeptical of aces, because the pot would be so juicy someone would probably take a stab at it.As is, this could be a middle to decent pair, in the 77-TT range. Maybe he started the hand just trying to flop a set in a multiway pot. After you raised and saw 2 callers, he could have seen a squeeze opportunity with about 2700 in the pot. It's possible you could have been raising with air or a hand like AKs, in which case he's a coin flip with some dead money in there. Even if he's solid player he could make this play, because he knows, like you, he still has some work to do to make a final table push.It's even possible this could be a JJ or QQ trap.This very well could be aces, but that's not all it could be. With kings here, I'm shipping every time. Sometimes you'll see aces, but in a $3 tourney, I think you're just as likely to see everything else.

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Don't ever fold this PF in this type of tourny....I mean, in any tournyAs Dan Harrington says, "I'm not good enough to fold KK PF, neither are you"....or something like that

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Don't ever fold this PF in this type of tourny....I mean, in any tournyAs Dan Harrington says, "I'm not good enough to fold KK PF, neither are you"....or something like that
i'm afraid i have done it a couple times, though the stacks were deeper and i had more information to go with, and there were two people all in ahead of me both of whom had me covered and it was AA and QQi have tried to not have to makes the read and just resign myself to going broke if my KK runs into AA, but on occasion i'm 99% sure that it's not the time or place to go to battle with KK and picking when to go to battle is just as important as what you go to battle with according to sun tzu
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Please never fold KK preflop in a $3.30 tournament. Never.
limp rr all in in a sng 5 people left, i have KK and am getting short in the BB, i know he has AA i call anyways, it would make it easier if i sucked out on these once and a while
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This is results thinking. When we have KK, we want to get it in PF. Always. I mean, I'm happy that one time when you folded KK someone had AA, but it is not the right move. More times than not are they going to have a worse hand. When you start thinking that they "could" have AA, and then fold. You are playing scared. I mean, for me to fold KK PF, he has to be the biggest nit, over 300bb stacks, and it has to be like a 5bet pot...and even then, I'm not sure if I can do it. Especially in micro and low stakes games, you cannot pass the chance to jam KK.

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like i said, if my KK occasionally sucked out against AA i would not even think about it
Statistically, it'll happen 1 out of every 5 times you encounter that situation. I bet if you have a significant amount of hands logged you'd see you're close to this.
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Statistically, it'll happen 1 out of every 5 times you encounter that situation. I bet if you have a significant amount of hands logged you'd see you're close to this.
after a discussion with a friend i find that the times i suck out are a lot lower than they are against me, mostly because i am rarely in with the worst of itmy KK vs AA has sucked out twice as i do track those, would need to review hands to see how many times i have been in the situation thoughi'm trying to make this thread more about the strategy for a tourney than just another KK discussion, i had commited less than 10% of my stack at the point when the re-raise from the other big stack came in which because of bet sizing would all but commit me to the hand if i called, there is no other big stack so this really isn't a squeeze play, though there is a juicy pot out there now with the two callers and it is possible i may have just been making a move from the button over the limpersnow the concensous is that this is always a shove here, does anyone think it unwise to get involved with the other big stack here as they are less likely to do this with QQ or AK against a stack that could cripple them? I would have felt better about the hand if he had shoved to the raise rather than the re-raise
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Again, never fold KK in this spot. If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the stacks in this tournament, give yourself QQ and you start to open up a discussion. The reason being that AK is possibly in villain's range (yes he would have played it badly if the action went as it did, but it's still possible) and then you're 70/30 with KK vs. AK whereas it's a race with QQ vs. AK. But with KK, you're 20% against AA and crush everything else. Never fold.

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Again, never fold KK in this spot. If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the stacks in this tournament, give yourself QQ and you start to open up a discussion. The reason being that AK is possibly in villain's range (yes he would have played it badly if the action went as it did, but it's still possible) and then you're 70/30 with KK vs. AK whereas it's a race with QQ vs. AK. But with KK, you're 20% against AA and crush everything else. Never fold.
i'm afraid i would drop QQ here pretty easy because as you mentioned i am racing against AK and crushed by AA and KKthis is the same reason i don't think he is making this raise with QQ rather only one of three hands, AK, AA, and KK with KK being very unlikely because i hold the other two kings but i won't discount it, AK being possible but less likely because i don't think he makes the limp reraise with AK making AA the much more logical expectation hereso i am dead even against one hand KK, a 7-3 favourite against AK, and a 4-1 dog against AA and as i stated i'm resigned to just ship KK as everyone suggests though i still hold to there being places where there needs to be discussionagain, because of the way the hand played out with the other two players i think this is the only way to play this hand, but just want to see if anyone else could throw in another option
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The amount of times you call here and opponent flips up anything but AA far outweigh the once in a blue moon time that villian does have AA. P.S.- I didn't read all the posts so I'm sure it's been said already, hopefully.

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Uh, you have kings.Also, if you "rarely" get it in with the worst of it you're playing tournaments wrong/too weak/tight

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Also, if you "rarely" get it in with the worst of it you're playing tournaments wrong/too weak/tight
yes i am and i know it, more so in the middle stages of tournaments which causes me to come into the bubble or final table on fumes too often and is why i really wanted to discuss this hand because i have made a decision to play to win more now instead of playing to cash, so far it has not being paying off i just wanted to get a check up to see if there is anything anyone would do differently here, so far the answer is a resounding no
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like i said, if my KK occasionally sucked out against AA i would not even think about it
My point is...if Sammy Farha can't lay em down...then you can't either. :club:
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