How Bad Did I Play That

[NightSky 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton ($43.10)SB ($24.40)Hero (BB) ($15)UTG ($15)UTG+1 ($27.95)MP1 ($23.80)MP2 ($14.05)MP3 ($25.40)CO ($24.10)Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, Q, 2, 3UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 5 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checksFlop: ($1) A, 7, 9(4 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $0.25, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, UTG calls $1, 1 foldTurn: ($3.75) 9(2 players)Hero bets $1.50, UTG raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50River: ($9.75) 2(2 players)Hero checks, UTG checksTotal pot: $9.75 | Rake: $0.45Results:Hero had 10, Q, 2, 3 (Hi: flush, Ace high).UTG had J, 9, 7, 5 (Hi: full house, nines over sevens).Outcome: UTG won $9.30I'll post some of my hands which i obviously didn't play too good  On the flop i feel i made a good raise, the bet on the turn might be ok but i should have folded after his raise or was it a bad bet in that spot in the first place? 

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

meh depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you are trying to get it in or trying to control the pot. I think with the second nut flush draw and the nut lo draw I would have went more for the pot control side of things and just smooth called the flop. On the turn depending on what type of player you are and what type of player is behind you I might have just checked it there (although I am the guy who will check raise people often) I suppose you bet it as a blocker/or don't show weakness type of bet? (the maybe he's on a flush/lo draw type of bet :-) Like I said I think I just smooth call flop, c/c turn (depending on bet size), fold river if it isn't next to freeP.S don't post results so you don't get biased responses

[NightSky 0]

I bet on the flop to go heads up, i thought even though i don't have the best hand right now i probably still in favor of winning this hand because of the good draw so i wanted to build the pot a little bit and i wouldn't be sad if he folded.On the turn i wanted basicly to see where i'm at and wanted to keep the pressure on in case he is only drawing for low and i guess i should give up after he raised but he could have trip 9s also...Is my think process ok or should i see a doc ? Thanks for the hand history advice.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I bet on the flop to go heads up, i thought even though i don't have the best hand right now i probably still in favor of winning this hand because of the good draw so i wanted to build the pot a little bit and i wouldn't be sad if he folded.On the turn i wanted basicly to see where i'm at and wanted to keep the pressure on in case he is only drawing for low and i guess i should give up after he raised but he could have trip 9s also...Is my think process ok or should i see a doc ? Thanks for the hand history advice.

I don't think this is what you really want to happen. You are still on the draw and the lo draw being the stronger of the 2. If you are likely to only get half why not let more people in the pot? If you hit your gin card (K of hearts or at least a lo completing heart) then boost it up

[NightSky 0]

I wanted him out because i didn't want to get quatered if one more low card comes up but you might be right, letting the 3rd get in the pot and waiting for one more low card and the flush might be more profitable.

[antistuff 0]

when you have a nut low + flush draw you want to get as much in on the flop as you can. also, watch out for having like the nut flush draw + backdoor low + backdoor straight. especially if the pot was raised preflop you will want to push and push on the flop because if you get called you're not that bad and the size of the pot gives you overlay but you also have a ton of fold equity usually. i am implying something in the bolded part that you might want to pay attention to.----------------------------------as for the hand, i would have lead the flop but i don't mind what you did. i think you should always bet and raise the size of the pot until you get more expirience. on the turn its bet/fold. against some players you can think about check/calling, but if you always just bet/folded that turn you would be doing ok.

[NightSky 0]

Ok a new one, its a hand which is a little bit tough, in the past i probably would call the reraise with nut low and nut flush draw but now i tend to play a bit safer. Without the reraise i would call 1.25 but after the Button reraised all in i thought i'm better off with folding, was it a good decision?PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG+1 ($35.85)MP1 ($21.75)MP2 ($35.05)MP3 ($22.45)CO ($52.20)Button ($4.50)Hero (SB) ($14.75)BB ($11.60)UTG ($13.30)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J, 3, 51 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($1.75) 8, 7, 2(7 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checksTurn: ($1.75) Q(7 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $1.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.25, 1 fold, Button raises to $4.25 (All-In), Hero folds, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $3, MP2 calls $3River: ($14.50) 10(3 players, 1 all-in)UTG+1 checks, MP2 checksTotal pot: $14.50 | Rake: $0.70

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

o boy......... Why in God's name are you checking this flop!?!?!?!? you flop the nut lo w nut flush draw and back door str8. Bet it! If you pot the flop the rest of this hand plays itselfFWIW.... As played I'm folding this action on the turn precisely 0% of the time

[NightSky 0]

o boy......... Why in God's name are you checking this flop!?!?!?!? you flop the nut lo w nut flush draw and back door str8. Bet it! If you pot the flop the rest of this hand plays itselfFWIW.... As played I'm folding this action on the turn precisely 0% of the time

Now i realize that the play on the flop was pretty nitty but the problem was that probably 3 players would call my raise, it was a table full of maniacs so i wanted to be sure to have the nuts when the money goes in the middle didn't want to get quatered or to lose the whole thing, every A or 3 and i dont even have the nut low.So you think i should call 4$ on the turn even if i believe that the guys behind me might move all in too, like i said it was a table full of maniacs.p.s. what's FWIW?

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Now i realize that the play on the flop was pretty nitty but the problem was that probably 3 players would call my raise, it was a table full of maniacs so i wanted to be sure to have the nuts when the money goes in the middle didn't want to get quatered or to lose the whole thing, every A or 3 and i dont even have the nut low.So you think i should call 4$ on the turn even if i believe that the guys behind me might move all in too, like i said it was a table full of maniacs.p.s. what's FWIW?

first off you can't be afraid of getting cf'd by an ace or a three here. With this many people in the pot the possibility of all the aces being left in the deck is slim. 2nd you are betting the flop for value. You want some callers. As played on the turn you are still getting 2:1 on your call with nut lo and nut flush draw. This is all IMO inmyopinion so take it FWIW forwhatitsworth

[Cappy37 0]

Now i realize that the play on the flop was pretty nitty but the problem was that probably 3 players would call my raise, it was a table full of maniacs so i wanted to be sure to have the nuts when the money goes in the middle didn't want to get quatered or to lose the whole thing, every A or 3 and i dont even have the nut low.

This isn't Hold Em.. You don't bet wanting ppl to fold more often than not.. It's *about* value. On the flop you got half the pot locked up (with counterfeit protection) and have 8 clean outs to the nuts, with another 3 outs (non spade 4s) to the likely nuts unless someone has exactly 56). Even if the 4s don't give you the best high hand, you *still* have redraws to a better high.. This is a pot where you want the pot built as high as possible.

So you think i should call 4$ on the turn even if i believe that the guys behind me might move all in too, like i said it was a table full of maniacs.p.s. what's FWIW?

FWIW = For What It's Worth.You should call on the turn if you want to encourage worse lows, others highs to call. It's a solid play, since you have outs to the best high and the low locked up with coutnerfeit low protection built in. It's too hard to flop everything and the kitchen sink in this game, you're never running well enough to dump hands like this. In O8b, this hand *is* the monster. If this was limit I'd be ramming and jamming every time it was my turn to act throughout the hand.

[checkymcfold 0]

Ok a new one, its a hand which is a little bit tough, in the past i probably would call the reraise with nut low and nut flush draw but now i tend to play a bit safer. Without the reraise i would call 1.25 but after the Button reraised all in i thought i'm better off with folding, was it a good decision?PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG+1 ($35.85)MP1 ($21.75)MP2 ($35.05)MP3 ($22.45)CO ($52.20)Button ($4.50)Hero (SB) ($14.75)BB ($11.60)UTG ($13.30)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J, 3, 51 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.15, BB checksFlop: ($1.75) 8, 7, 2(7 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checksTurn: ($1.75) Q(7 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $1.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.25, 1 fold, Button raises to $4.25 (All-In), Hero folds, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $3, MP2 calls $3River: ($14.50) 10(3 players, 1 all-in)UTG+1 checks, MP2 checksTotal pot: $14.50 | Rake: $0.70

bet the flop. you're a blind, so you're getting called by all sorts of trash if you bet.i'd also be quite content to get it all in on the turn 3way, and only marginally miffed to get it in HU, especially considering that the flop was checked around as played. i think that you get half of this pot cleanly more than 1/2 of the time, and are getting quartered so far with a 16%-ish redraw to 3/4ing someone or better the rest. even if you get quartered 3way, that's not that painful at all, and you want to cultivate an image that seems shovey as much as possible so that you can be playing big pots as much as possible. this is a pretty amazingly good spot to cultivate that sort of image, on either the flop or the turn, at very, very little longterm EV expense to you, even if someone literally shows you a set and the other guy literally shows you a3.

[NightSky 0]

Thanks for the advices guys, i see now how nitty it was played by me. Hope to get in such good spot soon again.  Ok, i've got another one which i didn't like after i saw my opponents' hand, was it just a little cooler or did i had a good chance to lay it down?PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($9.95)UTG+1 ($1.80)MP1 ($5)MP2 ($22.95)CO ($14.65)Button ($38.45)Hero (SB) ($14.15)BB ($25)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 2, 10, Q4 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15, BB raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50Flop: ($1.75) 4, 8, J(2 players)Hero checks, BB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2, BB raises to $14, Hero calls $11.40 (All-In)Turn: ($28.55) 3(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($28.55) J(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $28.55 | Rake: $1.40

[Cappy37 0]

You aready have the low and any spade or 9 scoops.You need to get it all in on the flop.Oh wait, you did. Well played

[NightSky 0]

I was still underdog in that situation, my opponent had low nut and and a jack on his hand so it was something like 53 to 47, nearly a coinflip in which i got quatered but thanks for the compliment i guess such hands just go in the category "little cooler".p.s. i had gutshot straight draw also

[Cappy37 0]

I was still underdog in that situation, my opponent had low nut and and a jack on his hand so it was something like 53 to 47, nearly a coinflip in which i got quatered but thanks for the compliment i guess such hands just go in the category "little cooler".p.s. i had gutshot straight draw also

Thats why I said "any spade or 9"... Trust me, when you multitable up to 8 like I do, you get pretty good at reading all board possibilities at a glance.If you are honestly worried about the little things, you might want to play some more L08, where mistakes are generally less costly... Plus most decisions are pretty easy once you get a feel for it.

[antistuff 0]

Thanks for the advices guys, i see now how nitty it was played by me. Hope to get in such good spot soon again.  Ok, i've got another one which i didn't like after i saw my opponents' hand, was it just a little cooler or did i had a good chance to lay it down?PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($9.95)UTG+1 ($1.80)MP1 ($5)MP2 ($22.95)CO ($14.65)Button ($38.45)Hero (SB) ($14.15)BB ($25)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 2, 10, Q4 folds, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15, BB raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50Flop: ($1.75) 4, 8, J(2 players)Hero checks, BB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2, BB raises to $14, Hero calls $11.40 (All-In)Turn: ($28.55) 3(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($28.55) J(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $28.55 | Rake: $1.40

if he has a2jj you about tie on that flop. a good thing to do is to go to twodimes.net after almost every showdown and put the hands in and then see what the odds were pre, flop, turn and river. to get good at this game you need to be able to be able to come pretty close to guessing your equity on each street against both a single hand, a range of hands, and a range of certain type of hands (i can't think of a good way to explain the third one but it is different from the second one). having an intuitive feel for this will help you a lot.edit: i stand corrected btw its 60/40. as that is the absolute worst case you should be pretty happy to stick your money in on that flop every time. change the gutshot to a oesd and i think its 50/50

[NightSky 0]

Oh i missed that sorry @antistuffThanks for the advice i'm using the odds calculator from twodimes already, it's very helpful indeed to be there even 55 to 45 % in favor makes you in longterm profit, right?Here one of the hands which i seem to missplay all the time A-A and 1 or 2 good low cards to it, going all in is bad. There are sometimes guys which are calling but i think it still not the best strategy but when i raise a little and don't get a good low board i seem to overplay it against one guy or is moving all in against one opponent ok ? Here is example of what i mean, unfortunately the guy hit his flush on the turn but i was 60 to 40 in favor when the money went so i think i shouldn't be upset.Btw. when i'm geetting a good flop i slowplay the aces and try to get some money in the pot smoothly and to fire a good bet on the river, is that a right strategy?PokerStars No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) ($25.15)BB ($3.05)UTG ($5.25)MP ($36.70)CO ($4.80)Button ($5.60)Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, A, 7, AUTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.75Flop: ($2.25) 10, 9, 6(2 players)Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.25 (All-In)Turn: ($10.75) J(2 players, 1 all-in)River: ($10.75) 3(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: $10.75 | Rake: $0.50

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

meh......... due to stack size.... just meh

[NightSky 0]

More precisely please was it a bad play because of his small stack?

[Cappy37 0]

More precisely please was it a bad play because of his small stack?

Your re-raising PF pretty much notifies the table you have AAxx.. That flop is horrible for your hand, and villian is going to guess more times than not you have AAxx, and is going to call your shove with any two pair, straight, frush draw, nut low + pair, etc....It's a negative freeroll: you aren't getting called by worse, and you're getting snapcalled by better.AAxx is going to cost you more than it makes you, since it's hard to slow down with/fold post flop. And it beats complete air and top pair.

[antistuff 0]

Oh i missed that sorry @antistuffThanks for the advice i'm using the odds calculator from twodimes already, it's very helpful indeed to be there even 55 to 45 % in favor makes you in longterm profit, right?

if you're the one betting then being a 40% dog makes you longterm profit. yes, i know, i like speaking in riddles.

[NightSky 0]

@Cappy37You say that preflop raising makes it for my opponents easier to guess that i've some kind of AA combination, so what would be a better play, just limping and reraise when someone raise or raise preflop but give the pot away if now low cards come on the flop?@antistuffWhy 40% is that because of the fold equity and 1 more question regarding 2dimes... what does scoop stands for, splitting the pot between 2 players or the chance to win the pot without splitting with the opponent?p.s. thanks for helping me guys

[Cappy37 0]

@Cappy37You say that preflop raising makes it for my opponents easier to guess that i've some kind of AA combination, so what would be a better play, just limping and reraise when someone raise or raise preflop but give the pot away if now low cards come on the flop?

If you are raising all kinds of hands (A23x, KQQJ, AKJ3, etc..) then you can disguise raises with aces a little bit.. If you are only raising AAxx and A23x then you are jumping directly into a negative freeroll..Take Gus and Daniel, for example.. In NLHE, they love hands like 67sooted and T8, etc... Because it costs them so little to get involved and they can break someone when they get the right flop. They are in control of their situation, and know how to get away from "barely" hitting a flop.This is the reverse of the coin.. AAxx is going to take a ton of pots on the flop with a continuation bet, but that nets no extra money. And you are going to commit yourself to any pot where they have the upper hand post flop..It's a wager where you can win $2.25 by risking your whole stack. That's the "negative" freeroll. It's not like nlhe where AA can break AT on a T96 flop... He's got 4 cards to crack your aces, and you are runner-runner to any weak flush or weak low. You have practically *0* redraws, and no real way to know if you are even ahead when the money goes in. I'm not trying to scare you needlessly, just be aware that AAxx is such a B!tch to play in most situations in o8b, esp the PL and NL varieties. It's doubly bad when your opponent makes a low, and is freerolling against your high.Think of it this way: if your opponent has KJT9 on that T96 flop, you are drawing almost dead. He can hit a Q to end the hand entirely, and you are drawing to either one of the (hopefully) two remaining aces and a 6.. If he's got diamonds, then you are looking for a board pair to keep him only drawing to diamonds.. If he's got 2 pr and a diamond draw or a made straight, you are drawing beyond slim. In fact, here's the real rub.. Give *me* a hand on that flop you are beating that is going to call that all-in. Now that you have, recognize how live I'm drawing with *whatever* hand you give me that can call that all in.. Now realize you have naked AAxx and no redraws. Even if you only give me two cards A2dd, I got runner runner to split on top of my freeroll to catch a diamond and win the high. give me A25T with two diamonds and I got any 2, 5, diamond, or running low cards to f*ck you over.That's the basic danger of AAxx. It's not nearly the monster it is in hold em. What you have is one really good pair and a weak low draw, and most of the money you will make from it is heads up, against someone chasing a low.. And they need to miss the low *and* not make two pair. Lol it's really a mess. It's a favorite before *any* public domain cards come out (flop, turn, etc). It's a hazard to your bankroll once the flop comes, more often than not. You'd be downright shocked the % of the time I dump AAxx PF without at least a deuce to add to it.

[antistuff 0]

in twodimes the only number you really have to worry about is your equity in the pot. scoop means that you take the whole pot.i almost never fold AAxx in plo8. if I had to guess i would guess that I fold it maybe 5% of the time. however, my pfr% is arond 10% in FR and 16% in 6max, so when i raise preflop you can't really narrow my range that much. it depends on the table, my seat relative to certain players at the table, who has already done what, whats been going on at the table recently, and my mood. sometimes ill even look at the cards im holding. my position matters much less than most people would suspect.i also play AAxx harder postflop than most people if i am doing the betting. i was going to give you some examples but i thought about how exploitable and unbalanced the examples are. if you can figure out what im talking about from that you would have figured it out eventually anyway so whatever. unfortunately the player pool for this game is so small that there are some things i just wont talk about (i will also say misleading things about my own play but i will never give advice that i know to be misleading or wrong. of course i am not perfect and can be and im sure often are wrong about things). one more tidbit about AAxx I will share, be wary of 3 betting bad versions of it, especially from the blinds. I had to waste a few hundred dollars before i figured out what a bad idea it is to 3 bet a four way pot from the sb with AA97 and then be forced to bet/call the rest of my stack on almost any flop.