62 replies to this topic

[CobaltBlue]

Cows play poker with cow chipsHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 7 playersUTG: $134.00 UTG+1: $354.00 HJ: $844.85 CO: $1,017.10 (Hero)Button: $1,240.10 SB: $378.25 BB: $332.50 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with (7 players)3 folds, Hero raises to $12.00, Button raises to $32.00, SB folds, BB calls $28.00, Hero calls $20.00Flop: ($98.00) (3 players)BB checks, Hero ?Button is new to Bodog, so don't have too much history with him. He's got a 3bet of 3.3% over 148 hands. This is the third time he'd done this smallish 3bet on me in position. I'd folded the other times (I believe on the flop). He won a big pot against a reg earlier with 22 against 44 on a 42xx2 board. He also slowplayed the nut flush a bit when he flatted A8s in LP against an MP raise, flatted a small donk with the flush draw, hit the turn and smooth called, and then 1/3 potted river. BB is a super donk. Oh, and I guess I might look kind of LAGgy for what it's worth as I recently went on a decent heater.

[KingJames]

gahhhhh, i'm tornit seems like we don't have a read on buttons play in multiway 3b pots so I would say that the standard villain will play rather straight forward, we cool with that assumption?If we bet, we get value from the super donk, and we ensure some money goes in on the flop, which is a positive as the board is suuuuuuper coordinatedBy checking, we might get a bet if villain takes a stab with air. And if he does have teh KK or JJ, he'll check back and we can pot control deep oop ;)And then we can turn a set into a bluff when the Qd hits, and make him fold KKI'm really unsure here, but I'll keep thinking...I'm going to say lead >>>> check but reserve the right to change my vote

[rrumsey]

i would assume a new guy to bodog playing in 2-4 is prob a reg from another site and 2-4 is generally aggro for the most part ( and plenty of his 3 bets are probably smacking this board) that i still prefer to check. I mean what are we opening, calling, and leading multiway?

[CobaltBlue]

KingJames, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 6:32 PM, said:

it seems like we don't have a read on buttons play in multiway 3b pots so I would say that the standard villain will play rather straight forward, we cool with that assumption?

Probably.If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)

rrumsey, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 9:59 PM, said:

I mean what are we opening, calling, and leading multiway?

If anything, probably KJ, sets, and big draws.

[rrumsey]

CobaltBlue, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 8:05 PM, said:

Probably.If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)If anything, probably KJ, sets, and big draws.

Wouldnt people expect that more from c/ring? imo c/ring seems more balanced to me but idk

[KingJames]

CobaltBlue, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 9:05 PM, said:

If we lead, what are we doing facing a button raise? (BB would probably fold...but could also flat or shove.)

cryingif he only gets it in with combo draws, AKdd, AA, KK and JJ, we're a flip, so weeeee variance

Quote

Hold'em Simulation ? 15,840 trials (Exhaustive)board: Ks8dJdHand Equity Wins Ties8c8h 50.85% 8,054 0AA,KK,JJ,AdKd,AdQd,QdTd,KdQd 49.15% 7,786 0

if we remove AA, we're a pretty big dog

Quote

Hold'em Simulation ? 9,900 trials (Exhaustive)board: Ks8dJdHand Equity Wins Ties8c8h 28.90% 2,861 0KK,JJ,AdKd,AdQd,QdTd,KdQd 71.10% 7,039 0

So does he have the KQdd and QTdd type hands, does he stack off 250 with AA? big questions itt

[KingJames]

prob should add a few KJ combos... although KJ is a trrbl hand to 3b that deep, rio and such blah blah

[CobaltBlue]

KingJames, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 11:52 PM, said:

prob should add a few KJ combos... although KJ is a trrbl hand to 3b that deep, rio and such blah blah

In position, it's not so bad to 3-bet.Also, I don't know if he'd stack off with AA, though I would expect him to continue at least a street if he holds AA/AK with the Ad.

[KingJames]

CobaltBlue, on Thursday, May 26th, 2011, 10:51 PM, said:

In position, it's not so bad to 3-bet.Also, I don't know if he'd stack off with AA, though I would expect him to continue at least a street if he holds AA/AK with the Ad.

alright, so you lead??? and then what?

[CobaltBlue]

KingJames, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 1:33 AM, said:

alright, so you lead??? and then what?

Unfortunately, I acted too quickly and did not lead. In contrast to what I think is the best option now, I checked.Cows play poker with cow chipsHEM/Bodog NL Hold'em $2.00/$4.00 - 7 playersUTG: $134.00 UTG+1: $354.00 HJ: $844.85 CO: $1,017.10 (Hero)Button: $1,240.10 SB: $378.25 BB: $332.50 Preflop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with (7 players)3 folds, Hero raises to $12.00, Button raises to $32.00, SB folds, BB calls $28.00, Hero calls $20.00Flop: ($98.00) (3 players)BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $72.00, BB calls $72.00, Hero ?

[QED]

Probably raise and hope they think you have a draw?

[CobaltBlue]

QED, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 7:35 AM, said:

Probably raise and hope they think you have a draw?

So you're happy to get in 250bb with the third nuts then?

[QED]

Whoops, didn't notice we were deep.Is a small raise an option instead then?

[Ninja Ace]

CobaltBlue, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 8:05 AM, said:

So you're happy to get in 250bb with the third nuts then?

Yes.Since it's a 3bet pot, it's like stacking 100BB in a raised pot

[CobaltBlue]

Ninja Ace, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 1:17 PM, said:

Yes.Since it's a 3bet pot, it's like stacking 100BB in a raised pot

Just for the sake of argument...I think this is the range of hands that button will give us decent action with facing raises...equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 41.671% 41.48% 00.19% 31249459 145877.00 { 8c8h }Hand 1: 58.329% 58.14% 00.19% 43800163 145877.00 { AcAd, AdAh, AdAs, KK, JJ, AdKd, AdQd, AdTd, KdQd, KJs, KdTd, QdTd, Td9d, AcKd, AdKc, AdKh, AdKs, AhKd, AsKd, KJo }

[Ninja Ace]

That range is fairly problematic, but with dead money and generated uncontested wins a check-shove is still fairly profitable.What turns are we going to have to make tough folds on? What turns are going to kill our action? Besides cards 8 and under non-diamond is there a good turn (leaving only 22 good turns)?Do we donk shove good turns? Do we check hoping one of the other two will ship with worse after our scary overcall and risk free cards?I personally ship because the number of turn cards that make our hand impossible to play correctly is simply too high, and I am not confident that we can play in a +EV manner after flatting.

[mtdesmoines]

CobaltBlue, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 11:05 AM, said:

So you're happy to get in 250bb with the third nuts then?

Not only third nuts, but we have also have to fade draws IF we are ahead. Still. I'm never folding, never flatting. Our hand has too much value. Raise to $250?

[BaseJester]

CobaltBlue, on Friday, May 27th, 2011, 12:05 PM, said:

So you're happy to get in 250bb with the third nuts then?

I would be. This seems like a no-brainer to me, but maybe that's why you're more successful.

[trystero]

We get it all in on the flop we're against jj/kkI know you don't have them but reads really really help.

[CobaltBlue]

I actually think that donking the flop is the best way to go, though I'm torn between a donk/call and donk/3bet. That said, in the hand, I just called and then started regretting it based on stacks. The turn was the : and checked through (button took a really long time to check), I bet SB's $230 remaining on the : river (with plans to fold to a button raise). Both villains thought for a while and folded.