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s&g hand strat question (speedz needs you!)


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Ok, so I have a poker strat question...I'm posting it here because:1. it's not really "general" strat2. it's definately not limit (but I would have liked to post it there)3. the "NL" and "tourney" sections don't get much traffic and I don't know who to trust thereThat said...I'm down to the last 5 in a $20 S&G on Party. It is a typical table with no strong reads, and as usual it is getting tighter going down to the wire. This is from memory, so the chip counts might be a little off. Here we go:SB: $2,200BB: $1,750MP: $2,300CO: $715Button (me): $845 Blinds: ($50, $100) and going up next handI am dealt [Kc Jc]MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises (all-in), SB folds, BB folds, CO calls.So I was thinking that:1. this is a decent hand to take a stand with if SB or BB call (CO will most likely fold to an all-in and call)2. if SB and BB fold it's probably 50/50 that CO calls, and if he does I'm ahead more often than not3. it's nice if everyone folds and I pick up some cash while leaving CO even more desperateNow obviously I'm asking because I lost the pot in one way or another. Any comments on the play?

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I think this move is fine. With the Party SnG structure you really have to get in there and gamble. This is a fine hand to do so with. When I used to play the Party SnG's I would really gamble early to get a big stack so I could raise a ton of hands when the blinds went up. Besides recommending that you play Full Tilt or Stars SnG's I don't really have any other advice.

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If you plan on winning, you have to gamble at some point. You could be a little suspicious of the MP limping, but it does add to the dead money you could hopefully pick up by moving in. I like that play there. At that stage in the S&G I'm looking to amass a decent chip lead. If it causes me to bust out on the bubble, then so be it.

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I'm always a little leary when the short stack limps, because that usually means they're looking for a raise and they want action.That said, you need to make a move sooner or later. This isn't a bad hand to do it with. Better to be pushing with it than calling with it if you limp and get raised from one of the blinds. Force the others to make the decision for their chips.

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Ok, so I have a poker strat question...I'm posting it here because:1.  it's not really "general" strat2.  it's definately not limit (but I would have liked to post it there)3.  the "NL" and "tourney" sections don't get much traffic and I don't know who to trust thereThat said...I'm down to the last 5 in a $20 S&G on Party.  It is a typical table with no strong reads, and as usual it is getting tighter going down to the wire.  This is from memory, so the chip counts might be a little off.  Here we go:SB:  $2,200BB:  $1,750MP: $2,300CO: $715Button (me): $845  Blinds: ($50, $100) and going up next handI am dealt [Kc Jc]MP folds, CO calls, Hero raises (all-in), SB folds, BB folds, CO calls.So I was thinking that:1.  this is a decent hand to take a stand with if SB or BB call (CO will most likely fold to an all-in and call)2.  if SB and BB fold it's probably 50/50 that CO calls, and if he does I'm ahead more often than not3.  it's nice if everyone folds and I pick up some cash while leaving CO even more desperateNow obviously I'm asking because I lost the pot in one way or another.  Any comments on the play?
I don't see how you can't push. you're getting pretty low on chips, and this is a pretty decent hand. I like that it's suited too, we need all the outs we can get.
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I'm always a little leary when the short stack limps, because that usually means they're looking for a raise and they want action.That said, you need to make a move sooner or later.  This isn't a bad hand to do it with.  Better to be pushing with it than calling with it if you limp and get raised from one of the blinds.  Force the others to make the decision for their chips.
I think the CO was looking for a position raise and he got it...depending on the flow of the game, I might like to just call along with the MP limper simply because I am thinking trap with a midpair...I'm guess that is what he hadI still think that you need to make a stand and your hand was certainly a decent candidate to push with...what did he have btw?
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When pushing with a mediocre hand late in a tourney, I usually like to be the first one in. If it isn't possible, (which I believe it was in this case, you coulda waited) then I try to pick up two live cards. I hate hands like A4 to push with b/c most times you'll get called by a better ace or a pair bigger than a 4. I like 10 9 or something like that. Then again, I may be a donkey.

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When pushing with a mediocre hand late in a tourney, I usually like to be the first one in. If it isn't possible, (which I believe it was in this case, you coulda waited) then I try to pick up two live cards. I hate hands like A4 to push with b/c most times you'll get called by a better ace or a pair bigger than a 4. I like 10 9 or something like that. Then again, I may be a donkey.
What the fuck?Since when do you play poker?
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When pushing with a mediocre hand late in a tourney, I usually like to be the first one in. If it isn't possible, (which I believe it was in this case, you coulda waited) then I try to pick up two live cards. I hate hands like A4 to push with b/c most times you'll get called by a better ace or a pair bigger than a 4. I like 10 9 or something like that. Then again, I may be a donkey.
What the fuck?Since when do you play poker?
I dabble. Sorry bout the poker post. I have set myself a mandatory quota of 1 serious or poker related post per every 100 that I make.
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When pushing with a mediocre hand late in a tourney, I usually like to be the first one in. If it isn't possible, (which I believe it was in this case, you coulda waited) then I try to pick up two live cards. I hate hands like A4 to push with b/c most times you'll get called by a better ace or a pair bigger than a 4. I like 10 9 or something like that. Then again, I may be a donkey.
What the fuck?Since when do you play poker?
I dabble. Sorry bout the poker post. I have set myself a mandatory quota of 1 serious or poker related post per every 100 that I make.
How Stalinesque of you.
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When pushing with a mediocre hand late in a tourney, I usually like to be the first one in. If it isn't possible, (which I believe it was in this case, you coulda waited) then I try to pick up two live cards. I hate hands like A4 to push with b/c most times you'll get called by a better ace or a pair bigger than a 4. I like 10 9 or something like that. Then again, I may be a donkey.
What the fuck?Since when do you play poker?
I dabble. Sorry bout the poker post. I have set myself a mandatory quota of 1 serious or poker related post per every 100 that I make.
I've always liked the word "quota". I'm not sure why. As for some of the comments, I was suspicious of the CO limp as well. That's why I wasn't sure about moving in. No results yet, my friends.
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I personally will not try the push-steal when another short stacked has entered the pot. A big stack is unafraid to gamble and is probably running hot to get the chips, a short stack is looking to double up with any numebr of normally unnacceptable hands. Therefore, I usually attack the middle stacks who have something to gain by folding. But as they say, there's never a "general" situiation whos answer can solve others, it allllll depends. In this instance though I would have pushed as well, however i would have expected to be called by a small pair or unmatching(hopefully) high cards. I like gambling in sng's when i have 5-8 bb's so if i do double up or more i have a powerful stack, not an average one looking to double up yet again.

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With the blinds the way they are in this instance...you have three choices:1. Fold and wait for a two live card situation....56 sooooooooooted, T9, etc....and of course..any premium hand....(risky, you can get a run of rags that blind you out or force you to push with 52 off...)2. Push.....hey....you gotta gamble...KJ is okay to gamble against all pairs except AA, KK, and JJ....you are in okay shape versus AQ...bad shape versus AK.....I don't think the limper limps with AK, AQ here....hey....poop or get off the pot....you gotta move in...yeah...KJ sucks if you get called...but so what...gotta gamboooooool.3. Limp....then push on the flop regardless of what flops.....AHHH...HUH? Well...this could win you a small pot...or have you pushing drawing near dead....take your pick....Personally.....you are bleeding and on life support here....WTF...just gambooool.

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If you limp, aren't you begging to be called by the SB and BB. Then your hand shrinks even more. Just a thought.
That is the whole point...if you limp...you might invite others to limp also...and when you push the flop....you might win a heftier pot....you Donkey....
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If you limp, aren't you begging to be called by the SB and BB. Then your hand shrinks even more. Just a thought.
That is the whole point...if you limp...you might invite others to limp also...and when you push the flop....you might win a heftier pot....you Donkey....
I see where you're coming from, but I think this play only works from early position. If I was the small blind this would have been fine, but what are the chances that all three of them check to me on the flop and I get to steal it?
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If you limp, aren't you begging to be called by the SB and BB. Then your hand shrinks even more. Just a thought.
That is the whole point...if you limp...you might invite others to limp also...and when you push the flop....you might win a heftier pot....you Donkey....
I see where you're coming from, but I think this play only works from early position. If I was the small blind this would have been fine, but what are the chances that all three of them check to me on the flop and I get to steal it?
I forgot to qualify my statement with "Early position" play.
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I'm with Ron (I can't believe I said that.) First in vig is very important and you don't have it. I would have limped in and tried to catch the flop unless I had a strong read that the small stack was prone to folding when pushed.

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I'm with Ron (I can't believe I said that.) First in vig is very important and you don't have it. I would have limped in and tried to catch the flop unless I had a strong read that the small stack was prone to folding when pushed.
Word. I'm really big on being first in with a potentially dominated hand. I, too, would rather have suited connectors here (i.e. live cards). But I went broke last night on QQ, KK, QQ and AA, respectively, so clearly I'm not the one to be giving advice, here.As usual I have no point...
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If you limp, aren't you begging to be called by the SB and BB. Then your hand shrinks even more. Just a thought.
That is the whole point...if you limp...you might invite others to limp also...and when you push the flop....you might win a heftier pot....you Donkey....
Listen here piss boy, if he limps, and gets two callers, there is $400 in the pot, and he isn't first to act after the flop, he is last. Therefore anyone of those three (two big stacks) can jam the pot first and he can't call unless the flop hits him on the head. Oh wait, you said EP, and here I thought we were talking about a specific situation, not general poker advice. You changed it around to make yourself sound right.HAHAHA, Alf was wrong, I was right. There is a god.Now bend over for your lashing, donkey boy. Sam, always agree with me and I'll always massage your buttocks after I spank it.
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If you limp, aren't you begging to be called by the SB and BB. Then your hand shrinks even more. Just a thought.
That is the whole point...if you limp...you might invite others to limp also...and when you push the flop....you might win a heftier pot....you Donkey....
Listen here piss boy, if he limps, and gets two callers, there is $400 in the pot, and he isn't first to act after the flop, he is last. Therefore anyone of those three (two big stacks) can jam the pot first and he can't call unless the flop hits him on the head. Oh wait, you said EP, and here I thought we were talking about a specific situation, not general poker advice. You changed it around to make yourself sound right.HAHAHA, Alf was wrong, I was right. There is a god.Now bend over for your lashing, donkey boy. Sam, always agree with me and I'll always massage your buttocks after I spank it.
ya, Alf is a Donk,The push is perfect,Blinds going up next hand, we arent sittign very pretty for chips, C/O limps, which tells me c/o is a donk, and probably limp/called with a mid PP.u cant just call this in this spot, cuz if the flop comes down and we have just a little piece but face our whole stack if someone makes a bet,, what do we do?it would be best to get this preflop.take blinds, or hope to get called by a donk
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I personally will not try the push-steal when another short stacked has entered the pot. A big stack is unafraid to gamble and is probably running hot to get the chips, a short stack is looking to double up with any numebr of normally unnacceptable hands. Therefore, I usually attack the middle stacks who have something to gain by folding. But as they say, there's never a "general" situiation whos answer can solve others, it allllll depends. In this instance though I would have pushed as well, however i would have expected to be called by a small pair or unmatching(hopefully) high cards. I like gambling in sng's when i have 5-8 bb's so if i do double up or more i have a powerful stack, not an average one looking to double up yet again.
Short stack is looking to double up when he makes a move with marginal hands...not calling with them...the big stacks simply want to get a good return on their money and bust another body...BTW, Ron is always right...GET IT???????? ALWAYSNow be gone you druling vegetable, BE GONE!!!!!!!
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