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I was playing a live 8 handed tourney and I'm sitting above the average with about 150 in chips (started with 100). Blinds are 2/4 and I have two 9's UTG and I make it 12 to go. The guy to the left of me makes it 35 total and he's liable to make crazy plays but he's not a crazy player persay. A loose idiot calls behind him and it's back onto me.. I knew I should have folded or maybe called, but there were so many pretty chips... well I moved all-in hoping to push people off AQ or AK, but then the kid to the left of me went into his acting routine and i knew immediately he had an overpair.. crap. He calls my all-in and puts me out of my misery with his aces. What should I do in these situations? I know going all-in was a very poor move, but is it right to call so much of my stack with a mediocre hand? Or should I try to flop a set because of implied odds of them having a big hand? Making a raise and then folding immediately to a standard re-raise with a legitimate hand seems kinda goofy.. I dunno.

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I like the open for 3x's the big blind.When it gets back to me for 35 that is a tough spot. Folding getting that much on your call is tough(especially if hes capable of making a move on you). I'd probably call and see a flop. I really don't like the all in. Your stack is too big(in relation to the blinds) to get desprete. If you had <100 I think it would be more justifiable. Folding preflop is better than the all in.How would you rate your tournament skill level to the others at the table?Are you by far the best player at the table?Are you just a little better than everyone?Average compared to the table?Worse than most?Worst?I think if you are BY FAR better than everyone else at the table, you should fold preflop and let the fact that you outplay your opponents make you fold this(likely) coin flip at best situation.If you are clearly not the best player than I don't think your play was too bad.-Travis

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Well, my style is a bit different than most players at the table. I have a fairly tight image but I do a lot of dancing and I'm mainly a postflop player-- I tend to outplay everyone postflop, but preflop I keep making really ridiculous decisions which jepordize my chances. Sometimes I just need to remind myself where my strengths are, for some reason I just didn't want to let go of that hand and I just wasn't thinking.Technically, in terms of knowledge I'm probably the second best player, but I keep making mindless decisions. I guess it's due to lack of disciplineIt's unfortunate because I've been on a real cold streak and I had a big chip stack from good post-flop play.

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I view medium pairs as very marginal hands. The odds say that once the flop hits, there is going to be at least one overcard to your pair. And at that point, it is difficult to count on your 9's being the best.I play pocket 9's one of two ways:My most common option is to limp in and hope to flop a set. Limping seems correct for 2 reasons. First if I don't hit my set, I'm probably done with the hand, so I would love to get in as cheaply as I can. Second, if I do hit my flop, I want as many people in that pot as possible because that is my money. Knocking them out of the hand with a pre-flop raise is not what I'm looking for when I am playing for my set.My second option is, if I am in late position, I may make a raise to try to steal the blinds. Since my pair will likely be in jeapordy after the flop, I would love to take the pot without seeing any more cards. But this will usually only work in an unraised pot with few players still to bet.Moving all in with the 9's seems like an unwise decision. You will only be called by hands than can beat you (a higher pair) or hands that are even with you (two over cards). Risking all your chips with these cards may make sense if you were short stacked. But considering your chip position, you should sit back and wait for better opportunities.So I probably would not have raised before the flop. But if I did and I was then reraised significantly, I would be reluctant to put any more into that hand.Be cautious with those medium pairs!--cnm

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ithink it was all fine up untill the all in move, ya how could the guy call you? I've been there and i thinl it important to assess the player your making the bluff against because thats kinda what it is and ask yourself "is this player capable of laying downAK, AJ, AQ,JJ, 10,10" some players are some are not. it is also possible the player got some sort of read on you. I like the call then you can always try to outplay him after the flop.

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considering that a 3rd person called the 35, and youre already in for 12, i think youre getting good odds just to call and see if you can hit that set [this is if you are sure the loose 3rd person is just calling with nothing special, if it was a tight player you might be in trouble]. if it was just between you and the person with aces, i would consider folding.

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As per menti0ned, you need to know your table in situations like that that. 99's aren't necessarily bad hand, but, you need to obviously think of the people playing the hands after you. Typically, UTG, it's adviseable to play solid hands. This may mean not playing hands like AJ, A10, lower pocket pairs, etc. You need to think about if you're raising into the pot, what kind of odds are you giving other people. You don't want to make it worthwhile for people to draw out on you. In that situation, if I were facing a re-raise, I would've laid down the nines. The only people, unless on some sort of bluf/semi-bluff that would stay in (depending on the type of play) would be AK,AA, KK, QQ, JJ. In which, best case scenario, with the AK, it's a coin flip and race situation. You're still a slight favorite, but, why put in all your money at that point, when at best it maybe a coin flip?You may lose some chips from your raise, but, at the least you wouldn't be out of the tournament (if it is). Their's always going to be another hand.

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I'd have limped with the 9s, rather than raising with them. You aren't going to get a better hand to fold by raising with them, and if someone raises behind you, you have a tough decision to make. If you flop a set, you are likely to bust someone. If you don't, you haven't invested much and you can throw them away. You mentioned moving all in to try to move someone off of AQ or AK. I don't know a lot of people that would fold AK in a tournament when faced with an all-in raise. You also stated that you are a postflop player. If that is the case, why put all your money in preflop? That means that you give them a chance to call and get lucky rather than trying to outplay them with only a small amount invested.

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A typical play of beginning poker players is to overplay low pocket pairs. And while pocket 9s are not necessarly "low" there is still almost always going to be at least one over card on the flop and many times 2. I personally hate being UTG with a medium pocket pair. But if i was in this situation i would have doubled the blind or limp in. After the other player re reaised to 35 i would have to anyalze the player. If everyone folds to the 35 chip raise i would consider simply letting him have the pot and live to see another hand. If ANOTHER player calls the 35 chip raise however I would love to call the raise and see a flop. This way if you hit a 9 on the flop it is possible that you will be able to rake in a HUGE pot and more than double your chip stack! If you dont hit a nine, get out. It was worth a shot.

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Under the gun player puts in a raise. I don't know how the table has been playing, but most good players know that when someone comes in from UTG for a raise, they have a solid hand. You should realize that at least a few other players know this. Now the guy right after the UTG player bumps it 23 more? Eeek. Warning bells. Danger. Two raises, and we're only to the first two to act!I don't know of that many people who would reraise in this situation without a big pocket pair. Remember that.Another way to look at it, since he reraised, you knew he would call your all-in 100% of the time, because at that point even if it is just AK he's at 46%-ish to win it and getting almost 2-1 on his money, so he would be making the correct play by calling. That is the ABSOLUTE BEST you could possibly be doing here. AT BEST, you have a 55% chance to win the hand.Say he has AK 50% of the time and will call you here.Say he has the overpair the other 50% of the time. Well, now you're behind like a mofo getting only a 20% chance of winning.A little math:Half a chance at a coin flip and half a chance of you being dominated results in:50% * 55% + 50% * 20% = 37.5% of the time you win the hand.With your 99, you have a 37.5% chance of winning if he calls with AK 50% of the time and an overpair the other 50%.Let me say that again.You win 37.5% of the time with 99 in this situation.Now let's turn it up a notch!He reraised you after your decent raise. He's liable of making crazy plays, sure, so you think he might just have something like AK, or a lower pocket pair than your 99 figuring you for AK trying to push you off.Well, the instant you push all in, your chances of winning the pot DROP. That's right, when you push all in, you are more likely to lose here. Do you want to see why? Alright, let's say he has a lower pocket pair than you. Well, he's done with the pot. 0% chance if he calls you will have him dominated. So we go to AK. If he has AK, he's getting 2-1 odds to call (I found 35 in the pot from you, him, and loosey goosey plus the blinds for 109 total, then you push all in ~110 ish, so he has to call 110 to have a shot at 220). But let's say he figures you for KK or AA due to your UTG raise AND big fat reraise, so his chances of playing AK for such an exhorboriant amout of $$$ drops to roughly 30%. Just a ballpark figure, but whatever. Of course, if he had AK and knew you had 99 here, he would call every time and be correct in doing so. So now his chances of having an overpair when you get called are 70%. Math again:30% chance of call * 55% chance of winning + 70% chance of call * 20% chance of winning = 30.5%So pushing all in here makes the odds of you winning the hand 30.5% if he calls. Now that we have that number, let's try factoring in if he folds.If he folds, you win 110 every time, assuming loosey goosey doesn't try to play the hero and call you down.Dang... we need a number... let's say he folds 30% of the time, then 70% of the time and see what outcomes we get.He folds 30% of the time... math says:30% of the time you win without a fight * 110 added to your stack + 70% of the time he calls with a * 30.5% chance of you winning * 220 more for your stack = 79.97, on average, netted by this play.WHAT?!YOU MEAN THAT YOU'RE BETTING 110 FOR AN AVERAGE WIN OF 79.97?!In other words, every time you make this bet, you LOSE 30!!Oops!But what about if he folds 70% of the time? Well, too bad! You're still only going to win on average 97.13 chips every time you make this play.Those are some rough pot odds calculations, but that's what happens when you push like that. The most important factor is that EVEN IF half the time he only has AK, well the other half of the time when he has you dominated will more than make up for the measley 10% advantage you have with a pocket pair against two overs.Someone else summed it up much better than me, and this thought has helped me play such hands. He said something along the lines of:When you push all in with QQ and there's not much in the pot, your hand becomes 2-7, because the only guy that's going to call you is the guy that can beat your QQ just as easily as he will beat a 2-7.

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