help with my ak/aq/qq/jj low limit holdem leak

[WaffleMcHat 0]

First off, since this is my first post I would like to introduce myself. My name is obviously WaffleMcHat and I have been lurking on this forum for awile. I am a new player to holdem and started playing holdem online about 2 months ago and at a casino for the first time 3 weeks ago. I did my homework though and read sklanky's low limit for advanced players and lee jones low limit holdem. They have helped quite abit and although im not making much, i am definately not losing money.Anyway, you all seem really knowledgable and helpful so I thought I would finally make my first post in hopes that you could clear up a pretty serious leak I seem to have in low stakes limit holdem. My question is this: How the hell do you play AKo/AQs and AQo/ JJ/ QQ in a low stakes holdem game where people do not respect your pre flop raises. With AK and AQ I always raise with them and the flop almost always misses me completely. In the rare event it doesnt I always seem to lose to some kind of random two pair like Kx or Ax. Occasionaly, with AQ a quiet passive player rides his AK to the end and outkicks me. The books seem to support raising in early position with AKo and I believe ( i could be wrong?) AQs. As far as I can tell I gain no advantage to raising than just calling and could probably save myself money in the long run in low stakes holdem with bad passive players that do not respect raises. Should I continue to raise with these hands pre flop or just try calling?I believe the same can be said for JJ/QQ because any Ax player seems to call my raises. Should I just call with them to avoid losing money to the ace chasers?Also, if its a table where limpers NEVER fold to a raise once they have limped early is it pointless to raise with ap remium hand like AK,AQ,JJ,QQ (I guess AA and KK you do just because your chances of winning are so higher) in a late position on the button when you are positive that 3-5 limpers will just call your raise and not fold?Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Oh yeah, this is at a real life casino where there are tons of loose passive players. It is not online at all. I have moderate success with playing the mentioned hands in online play where people actually fold correctly to your raises.

[KDawgCometh 2]

without any specific example, one thing you need to do whenever you show aggression preflop is to follow up on the flop. Many times a lot of the loose limpers are fishing for a flush draw or some hopeless draw. If you fire out on the flop and get called I like to do it again on the turn and depending onhow many people are left three barrell it on the river. It is not always bad to have a big unmade hand be shown as when you have a big hand they are always thinking(if they're thinking) wow this guy doesn't always have anything and I've gotten paid off real nicely on my sets and draws because of this. Give it a try in your next session a few times, just be careful, if you get raised and you don't have anything get out prompt

[benhoug 0]

I mostly play NL, so keep that in mind, but in my opinion you must always raise w/ AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK in a liimit game. If you've got AQ up front I would suggest calling and see where you are on the flop. If you have JJ or QQ and an A or K flops you may have to give it up against any pressure, b/c in limit games (especially low limit) people will play AX all day long. If you've got AK or AQ you have to encourage the AX players to call you, but be leary of them hitting their second pair on you. I can't tell you how many times I've been mixed up in a pot where I should have a guy dominated (eg AK vs. A3) and the flop comes something like A 9 3. Keep in mind that even the premium hands are beatable after the flop. Even hands where you're a huge favorite like AA vs. AX suited can become big losers if the guy catches a lucky flop. Just try to keep the pressure on when you've got the best hand and give it up when you suspect you might be licked. I read something interesting about Stu Unger recently. He was obviously a master at NL tournaments, but he is supposed to be a lifetime loser in cash games (according to BarryGreenstein.com) because although "you've heard of all the great calls Stuey made, there aren't too many stories about great laydowns."

[Awful 0]

It is still correct to raise with QQ. You have a big edge on the field. You are being laid X to 1 on your bet where X is the number of callers. Your pot equity is great enough that this increases profit and causes the times you do get drawn out on to be smaller losses due to charging opponents to pick up their draws.With JJ, I am less certain. This hand needs to be played for set value due to the willingness of weak players to produce a field that includes all overcards, one of which will flop very often. JJ is the line where I stop saying "big pair" and start saying "let's make a set". I'll raise more than 5 players to win a monster when I set, or 2 or fewer to try to win HU, but JJ hates the middle ground. QQ does as well, but not as much due to its notably enhanced ability to win unimproved and larger pot equity vs. a field as a result.Remember, JJ hates the flop a comparatively large % of the time. It's a slippery slope down from there in the ability of pairs to win unimproved vs. playing them to hit trips.AK and AQ you raise for value due to the propensity of your opponents to play and pay you off with dominated hands. Collect bets every time you can while your hand still holds a sizable edge. Prefer suitedness with these hands; the ability to make a huge hand and the additional drawouts you can get in big pots are a big help towards winning money. Also, remember the advice in our poster Smasharoo's sig, stolen from me stealing from Mike Caro (or directly stealing from Caro with me standing by the side overestimating my importance): It's about winning money, not winning pots. If I put in 1/6th the money in the pot, as long as I win more than 17% of the time, I'm coming out ahead. Never lose sight of it; there will be swings for sure, but the game is basically taking the best of many wagers and letting the math catch up to you, which is what makes you a winner (well, that and short-term luck). There's a reason buyins and bankrolls vary by orders of magnitude. Focus on making decisions that will make a profit, even if the pot isn't always being slid towards you.

[wrto4556 0]

RAISE! Raise AQs raise TT raise AJo...You are going to get enough calls that your pot equity makes it correct ro raise! You only remember the bad times because that's how the brain works. Get pokertracker, it proves me right.

[KDawgCometh 2]

one thing about Jacks that helped me a lot in playing them was treating them like eights. Now think of it, they are a mid pair. obviously play them big if they are an over pair or like a set, but when you think of them as a middle pair it really frees you up on how you play them. People see the paint on them and all of a sudden they are a really big pair, but in reality they end up playing more like a middle pair. I got this idea from a card player article, I think it was Roy Cooke or Bob Ciaffone that wrote about trying ths

[wrto4556 0]

AK will win aginst Ax suited ~70% if the time. Raise, dude. Quit being so scared. :-)

[wrto4556 0]

one thing about Jacks that helped me a lot in playing them was treating them like eights. Now think of it, they are a mid pair. obviously play them big if they are an over pair or like a set, but when you think of them as a middle pair it really frees you up on how you play them. People see the paint on them and all of a sudden they are a really big pair, but in reality they end up playing more like a middle pair. I got this idea from a card player article, I think it was Roy Cooke or Bob Ciaffone that wrote about trying ths

Sure. Any hand you have to know when it's beat. But pre-flop, your jacks are good and you should raise'em.

[Awful 0]

Agreed, WRTO. When in doubt, raise. If you have any sort of standards, you have greater pot equity and will be making money on each caller. JJ is the only tricky situation because it will become suboptimal with 3-4 players representing all overcards. Improper final pot size on the set (unless they are the fishiest fish in the sea), unfavorable pot equity because the smaller overcard hands (Q and K high) are stealing most of their equity from the JJ. Still, it's not as much of a tragedy as letting 2 undercards see a free flop and pick up a chance to beat you. If you have to choose between a small mistake and a big one, it's better to risk making the small one. So yeah, if you have a good hand, come out raising, even if everyone in the world holding an inferior hand says "I'll call"

[princeof56k 0]

Yes you should continue to raise with AA, AK, ect. even if they are ignoring your raises. These cards give you the advantage. If they are ignoring your raises, the raise may not affect how many pots you win, but it will affect the size of the pots you do win. So with them ignoring your raises you're going to have a lot of bad beats, but the size of the pots you win will more than make for that. Bottom line, in order to make more money in the long run, raise with thise hands.

[WaffleMcHat 0]

Ok thanks a lot guys I just needed some positive reinforcement I guess. I just missed so many countless flops with AK and AQ that I begin to question the correct play. I will continue to correctly raise with these (except JJ?) pre flop.I would never have even bothered with this thread if I didnt read a few pages out of some crappy low limit book by someone named Bill Burton. I got it as a gift from my parents and it in no way compares to the Sklanksy's books and the Lee Jones book I read but it said call with AK, QQ, JJ, AQ pre flop and it confused the shit out of me. I guess I will just burn it and stick with the good books.

[Awful 0]

Nah, still raise JJ unless you know you're facing 3 opponents and they show you a Q,K, and A between them. Like I said, you can't let 2 undercards get a shot at you; much bigger mistake than raising JJ into a bad number of opponents. Still raise with that JJ. Just be aware that it's a good deal less premium than QQ, and in large fields if you don't hit a set, you can't be very comfortable.More players and you'll make money on sets (they'll chase dead and longshot draws due to pot size)Fewer and you will beat them more than they beat you for the relative amounts of $ contributed.Don't let me turn you into a wuss with pocket jacks.

[wrto4556 0]

Ok thanks a lot guys I just needed some positive reinforcement I guess. I just missed so many countless flops with AK and AQ that I begin to question the correct play. I will continue to correctly raise with these (except JJ?) pre flop.I would never have even bothered with this thread if I didnt read a few pages out of some crappy low limit book by someone named Bill Burton. I got it as a gift from my parents and it in no way compares to the Sklanksy's books and the Lee Jones book I read but it said call with AK, QQ, JJ, AQ pre flop and it confused the censored out of me. I guess I will just burn it and stick with the good books.

Except JJ? It's said that JJ plays worst against 3-4 people. So if 3-4 people limp, go ahead and raise as you are apt to get more callers and your pot equity compared to the size of pot makes raising correct; if you are the first in and it is a loose table, go ahead and limp, as 3-4 people will call your raise. Tight table, raise.Jacks are a funny hand.

[Markmadness 0]

In early position, I like to raise with AK AQ AJ JJ To drive people out of the pot. In late position depending on who is the raiser i will call. AQ, I don't like to get overly involved with aj if i am facing a raise. AK i always reraise.