Building Your Bankroll

[G'Grumpy'H 0]

Hello,After reading posts on this forum for a long time now, I decided to start posting and one of my biggest personal debuts is 'Live Vs Online' when it comes to building up your poker bankroll.I play online and live. I enjoy the live game much more and honestly so far I am a winning player live and a losing player online. For any reason you may come up with. But when I read articles about bankroll management most of the times it refers to online poker. Whenever I read about building up your bankroll again it usually refers to online poker. My question is, where do you think it's easier/better to build up your bankroll? Of course you may answer this question by simply saying "I'm a better live player, so live" but my question is beyond that, it's where it's more efficient as a structure.

[Jambot 0]

Well you get to play a whole lot more hands online than you would live. This helps rapid BR building if you are a winning player. Having said that, you don't get to instantly see how drugged/drunk/balla/etc. your opponent is when playing online, which I find -ev.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I'll start, as i've been there before.In live games, the lowest limit is usually 1/2NL or 2/4limit. meaning you need to start with at least 100-200 to even sit at the table.online you can play micro stakes. my math skills arent that great, but you get the idea. that will greatly affect the way your roll is being built.If you are playing the same stakes live or online, you then have to factor in, will you be multitabling online?Now, lets look at the play itself. Many people say online is better because of the multitabling aspect, and the ability to see way more hands etc etc.. so if you're a winning player the variance wont be as bad. Obviously times have changed and a lot of bad online players have come and gone. Some actualy improved. with live, you can only play 1 table. and pay higher rake. If you have a cold run of cards, you will really notice it.But these variables apply to everyone at the table. Its very easy to get bored while sitting at a table in a casino, and people start to jeopardize their play by playing more LAG.More often than not, many players at the 1/2 levels in a casino are there for 1 reason. To have fun. They want to win or lose. they dont want to break even. That and the less hands per hour make flopping trip 5's with a 3 kicker on a 5,5,Q board look like the nuts.It isnt as easy as I describe tho. Because of the lack of hands per hour, and the length of time spent sitting there, it can take its toll on you as a fulltime player also.The reason some players say "I'm better at live play than online" is because they dont have the patience needed. They have adapted an aggressive style that is better suited against other impatient players who are only playing to gamble away money.This is a short term winning style, and believe me, I've seen a lot in my short time playing live fulltime.On a similar note, 1 thing i like about playing live, or building a roll live, is that when you're winning, you see the results 1st hand. Its also 1 main reason why I leave the casino after i'm up XX amount.I'll stay fresh by treating it like a job. My ability to go home, relax and not think about poker until the next day helps a lot with my game.Online, Its so easy to play when you shouldnt. meaning playing late at night because you cant sleep, or because you're bored, many reasons for losing money. You should always play when you're ready to play. Your mood should be the same for everyhand, if its not, you can't expect to make the correct decisions.I dont know what you were asking, but i'm obviously on the live side of poker

[try__an__hit 0]

live

[psujohn 0]

There are pluses and minuses both ways obv.Online you see a lot more hands and can multi-table. But online players at low stakes are generally nits and pot sizes are generally small. Online players at stake that would be entry level live (1/2 NL) are much better than the live players at that level.Live you pay higher rakes, see less hands and having tipping costs. But live players are more action oriented and generally bad so pots are much larger.I'd guess that a good balanced player who was equally versed in the math vs reading aspects would find a lower win rate online with less variance. A player that's heavily weighted toward the math would do better online and a player heavily weighted to "playing the player" would do much better live.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Based on previous years, I found that I had about the same winrate in $/hour playing online as live. However, my winrate was quite a bit higher in casinos than other games. If you're already sufficiently rolled for the games spread live and have a casino that you can play in without incurring a lot of travel costs, then that's probably the better choice, imho.

[navybuttons 15]

forgive me OP for bringing up these points.a lot of people believe they are winning live players because they don't keep great track of their results. Online you know what you are because if you play constantly and are not depositing you are probably winning, if you continue to deposit, you are probably losing. yes, a 20/40 game live will be 4x softer than a 20/40 game online, but i'm quite sure live is not as profitable. i've always felt i have a HUGE edge in the live 20/40 limit games, i've played, and i think i could probably sustain $40-50/hr. I say probably because i just don't know. to have an accurate gauge of winrate takes way WAY more hands than i have played at that limit. i beat that limit (not just HE) for about that through 15-19K hands, but it still takes WAY more hands to get an accurate winrate.to play 20/40 limit you should keep a bankroll of about $12000.now lets look at NLHE online:i think i could teach my dad (who's never played poker) to beat .25/.5 NLHE online in about 1-2 months. with total dedication in a month, you could beat that limit for 4-6ptbb/100 ($4-6/100). in three months you could probably 8 table at that winrate. eight tabling i play a little more than 500 hands/hr. if you 8 tabled w/ that winrate at that limit, it would conservatively equal $20/hour. Rakeback at 8 tabling that limit is probably around $5/hr. you can get bonus, etc. to easily bring an hourly rate close $30/hr.to play $.25/.5 your bankroll should be in the neighborhood of at least $1200. double the bankroll and at .5/1 you should make more hourly than a live 20/40 grinder.as you can see, online you could use 1/10th the bankroll to make roughly the same hourly rate. way easier to build a bankroll online. also, online it's less likely you'll spend it.goodluck.

[theinvestor 0]

Juat win the Sunday Million! Ask TJ how to do it.

[king1305 0]

RAKEBACK FTW AINEC

[GabeTheKid 0]

online, AINEC...a million reasons.rakebackno tipping dealersmore flexible stakes for smaller BRsmore hands/houreasier to analyze you gameetcetcetci could go on for a while but i'll stop here

[king1305 0]

online, AINEC...a million reasons.rakebackno tipping dealersmore flexible stakes for smaller BRsmore hands/houreasier to analyze you gameetcetcetci could go on for a while but i'll stop here

PokerTrackerAceHUDStrat ForumsHH's

[gatortom64 1]

PokerTrackerAceHUDStrat ForumsHH's

The warm sensation of a laptop while playing naked...... nevermind

[Variancelawl 0]

forgive me OP for bringing up these points.a lot of people believe they are winning live players because they don't keep great track of their results. Online you know what you are because if you play constantly and are not depositing you are probably winning, if you continue to deposit, you are probably losing. yes, a 20/40 game live will be 4x softer than a 20/40 game online, but i'm quite sure live is not as profitable. i've always felt i have a HUGE edge in the live 20/40 limit games, i've played, and i think i could probably sustain $40-50/hr. I say probably because i just don't know. to have an accurate gauge of winrate takes way WAY more hands than i have played at that limit. i beat that limit (not just HE) for about that through 15-19K hands, but it still takes WAY more hands to get an accurate winrate.to play 20/40 limit you should keep a bankroll of about $12000.now lets look at NLHE online:i think i could teach my dad (who's never played poker) to beat .25/.5 NLHE online in about 1-2 months. with total dedication in a month, you could beat that limit for 4-6ptbb/100 ($4-6/100). in three months you could probably 8 table at that winrate. eight tabling i play a little more than 500 hands/hr. if you 8 tabled w/ that winrate at that limit, it would conservatively equal $20/hour. Rakeback at 8 tabling that limit is probably around $5/hr. you can get bonus, etc. to easily bring an hourly rate close $30/hr.to play $.25/.5 your bankroll should be in the neighborhood of at least $1200. double the bankroll and at .5/1 you should make more hourly than a live 20/40 grinder.as you can see, online you could use 1/10th the bankroll to make roughly the same hourly rate. way easier to build a bankroll online. also, online it's less likely you'll spend it.goodluck.

your post is accutally quite unfair, Your comparing live limit to online NL. Personally I am an internet player, but my cousin is a die hard live player. He does some what poorly online, but does great in live games. He has an aggressive style that just does not work for online poker. He tracks his win rate quite and has been playing 1/2 NL live for about 1 1/2 years now. His winrate may come as a shocker for internet players, but its 22BBPT/100 which is about $29 hour. The live 1/2 games are very easy to beat its full of drunk people just giving away their money. Also with a winrate that high you only need about 10 buyins or so, Which at foxwoods is 3k. Granted you are still making less then online but the bankrolll difference is not as extreme as you made it seem. With a 12k BR your playing 2/5 no problem and making substantially more then in 1/2. Granted i have no numbers to go off but i can bet you can win double at 2/5 then you can at 1/2.Myself i love the internet, Its always there whenever i want it. It keeps me warm and fuzzy at night when i just need to grind out some hands. The drunks dont yell at me and berate me cause i stacked them. You dont have look at dirty degens. A lot of these degens smell bad and dont shower. Also heres a big one never have to SMELL someone BREAKWIND!I started off small at 25c/50c limit and worked my way up to 2/4, Its a great experience and nothing feels more overwhelming then building your BR to a respectable limit. Just an over all better experience in my eyes. But some people enjoy live while others enjoy the net. hope you enjoy the post

[navybuttons 15]

your post is accutally quite unfair, Your comparing live limit to online NL.

profits to br requirements are similar.

He has an aggressive style that just does not work for online poker.

does not compute!

Also with a winrate that high you only need about 10 buyins or so

i can't stress how incorrect this is.

With a 12k BR your playing 2/5 no problem and making substantially more then in 1/2. Granted i have no numbers to go off but i can bet you can win double at 2/5 then you can at 1/2.

you can make about $4-5K max/month consistently at most 2/5 NLHE games.

I started off small at 25c/50c limit and worked my way up to 2/4

[Variancelawl 0]

profits to br requirements are similar.does not compute!i can't stress how incorrect this is.you can make about $4-5K max/month consistently at most 2/5 NLHE games.

Actually profits to bankroll are similar for 1/2 nl. I havnt ran the numbers yet but i bet with a 10 buyins your RoI will be pretty low. with a 22PTBB/100. As far as the 2/5 statement i dont have the numbers for it so you have me there.But the 1/2 numbers i do have are very solid.

[Suited_Up 2]

All I know is that I play much better live.So it could also be decided individually if you know yourself well enough. I would easily make more live because I rarely play more than 2 tables, and I have no patience or discipline online. Or BR management.

[Royal_Tour 0]

online, AINEC...a million reasons.rakebackno tipping dealersmore flexible stakes for smaller BRsmore hands/houreasier to analyze you gameetcetcetci could go on for a while but i'll stop here

you're not even old enough to play live. so where do you get AINEC from?seriously, most of you people who say online, have probably not even played nearly as many hours live as you have online.

[king1305 0]

you're not even old enough to play live. so where do you get AINEC from?seriously, most of you people who say online, have probably not even played nearly as many hours live as you have online.

And that means that we can't have an opinion?

[navybuttons 15]

you're not even old enough to play live. so where do you get AINEC from?seriously, most of you people who say online, have probably not even played nearly as many hours live as you have online.

fwiw. i've played more hours live.

[GabeTheKid 0]

you're not even old enough to play live. so where do you get AINEC from?seriously, most of you people who say online, have probably not even played nearly as many hours live as you have online.

so i can't have an opinion?I know that a good dealer will deal 30 hands/hour.Online I average ~300 - some ppl average over 800Live players are weaker Online players you can have detailed info on them with HUD which imo evens that conOnline you don't have to wait/drive/waste time on anything - it's there when you're ready.Live takes a lot of preperation which lowers the hourly wage if you count all the preperation time.I could go on if I wanted to.

[navybuttons 15]

I could go on if I wanted to.

yes you could, but his point was that your opinion may not be as valid as it was presented.

[Suited_Up 2]

so i can't have an opinion?

If you don't play live, then no.

[Money022 0]

The warm sensation of a laptop while playing naked...... nevermind

You too eh?

[xzanos 0]

You too eh?

Mine burns my thighs...

[NoSup4U 0]

Live players are so much worse than online players at given limits. So I think that matters here, along with your relative skill level.If you are CTS, then you can build a roll much faster online than live, because you can beat signifcantly higher games. If you are not a great player yet, I would think you could win more in a month playing 2/5NL live than you could playing .5/1 online.Also, if we're talking really low level limit games, the rake will just destroy you live, and online is still pretty bad also. Like, I can't imagine trying to build a bankroll playing 3/6 limit for instance, all your profits are going to rake.Mark