iBeaver 409 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 My $.02. It'll be just a lot of rambling as I think of the 900 things I usually think about this issue. Plus my dumb fingers will make mistakes often I assume. I'll never enjoy posting on mobile. The second to last paragraph is probably the only important part of this post. You'll never ban guns. It's a constitutional right and getting rid of an amendment is just something I'll never see really happening. And I'm ok with that. I'm all for banning assualt weapons. I'm all for stricter rules on who can own a gun. It's still gross someone on a terrorist watchlist can go grab one at a gun show. Gun shows actually should either be outlawed or become licensed since you don't have to do a background check when getting a gun there. No "criminal" goes to legally buy a gun in a licensed gun shop because he has to submit paperwork and get a background check and wait. Criminals legally buy their guns at gun shows. Ammo is what should be actually more regulated. Put limits on ammo and make it harder to buy. Can't kill anyone if you don't have a bullet. Ummm..,I have zero issues with people owning a gun to protect their home. Sadly there are unsafe places in this country and you may need it. If you hunt, you need hunting equipment. I'm ok with that. I don't believe you should be bringing your home protection and hunting equipment to the mall or a local fair though. I have issues with the suggestions I've heard from politicians that put all the blame in mental health. I have an issue because these same politicians voted to cut funding for mental health and then also cut funding to gun safety training programs. You lose credibility when your voting record contradicts your "concern" The problem with this country as opposed to other countries who have guns yet don't have our issues or that we treat guns as a right and not a privilege. The mentality is vastly different. Someone on Facebook posted the meme Arp posted. One commenter stated she believed everything but the claim that Canada has stricter gun laws. Since I'm not lazy like her I took 15 minutes and searched and found all the differences. There are plenty. One stuck out to me. It's one I think is very important and should be a law here. Canadas background check focuses on mental health and addiction. Which is not what we do but the best part is that the agents running the background check are required to alert the spouse or family before granting the license. I could go on and on but I think that any type of gun control law like that could stop even one mass shooting is a step in the right direction. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 You'll never ban guns. It's a constitutional right and getting rid of an amendment is just something I'll never see really happening. And I'm ok with that. It's literally called an "amendment". It only exists because somebody changed the constitution. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but it's not impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 It's literally called an "amendment". It only exists because somebody changed the constitution. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but it's not impossible. yes, it's impossible Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 yes, it's impossible Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Meh, I'm more optimistic that the next generations will get it together. But it may take a few more generations until we outnumber the nutcases. Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Meh, I'm more optimistic that the next generations will get it together. But it may take a few more generations until we outnumber the nutcases. That's what we always say yet it seems to only get worse. I honestly see no reason though to ban them all together. Many countries like Switzerland, Finland, Sweden etc have guns but don't have the issues the US has. It can be done. I really recommend reading this article. He's a Republican and pro 2nd amendment so it's not done raging libtard. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/the-real-common-sense-tactics-the-debate-is-missing/542229/ Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Meh, I'm more optimistic that the next generations will get it together. But it may take a few more generations until we outnumber the nutcases. That's what we always say yet it seems to only get worse. I honestly see no reason though to ban them all together. Many countries like Switzerland, Finland, Sweden etc have guns but don't have the issues the US has. It can be done. Under 30, everyone is a liberal. Over 30, everyone is a conservative. People change. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm over 30. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 . Many countries like Switzerland, Finland, Sweden etc have guns but don't have the issues the US has. It can be done. What do you mean by "have guns". Im pretty sure none of those countries have open carry laws anywhere near where some states have in the US, or the access of everyman to automatic machine guns. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm over 30. you're a special case. Ever think what happened to the kids of the 60s and 70s that believed in free love, no war, peace and equality for all? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 you're a special case. Ever think what happened to the kids of the 60s and 70s that believed in free love, no war, peace and equality for all? Yeah, actually. What exactly took away their empathy? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Actually, what I think happened is they basically were just around at the most fortunate times... cheap post-secondary education, insanely good salaries, unprecedented stock market growth, insane real estate growth... more, I'm sure. Almost none of which exist for any other generation since. Like, on an unprecedented scale. Every important thing is exponentially more expensive now relative to wages. Child care, college, housing, etc. Meanwhile, they're being told that if you work hard, you will get these things, so they all think it was purely because they worked hard, and not in part because they were the generation with the most fortunate timing ever. So now they think people who can't escape poverty simply aren't trying hard enough, so why should they send their "hard earned" money (you know, all that capital gained (not earned) in the stock market and housing) to help society out. That's part of it, anyways. I think. Crudely. Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 What do you mean by "have guns". Im pretty sure none of those countries have open carry laws anywhere near where some states have in the US, or the access of everyman to automatic machine guns. Never claimed they carried AR15's but they well...read this. http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/ Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Never claimed they carried AR15's but they well...read this. http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/ Ok had to do something so couldn't give full answer. The point of my initial comment was that there are countries with guns. But they have strict laws on how what and where you can use them. Switzerland is a good example that you can have guns and not have what we have here. Other EU countries have similar laws and don't have the issues the US has. There is concrete, real world proof that with the right laws you can have people who want guns and people who don't without a mass shooting every day. It's also concrete, real world evidence that having even more guns is not a solution. If it was we would actually be the safest country in the entire galaxy because no one has more guns than we do. Proof it actually doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Ok had to do something so couldn't give full answer. The point of my initial comment was that there are countries with guns. But they have strict laws on how what and where you can use them. Switzerland is a good example that you can have guns and not have what we have here. Other EU countries have similar laws and don't have the issues the US has. There is concrete, real world proof that with the right laws you can have people who want guns and people who don't without a mass shooting every day. It's also concrete, real world evidence that having even more guns is not a solution. If it was we would actually be the safest country in the entire galaxy because no one has more guns than we do. Proof it actually doesn't work. I didn't realize you were arguing about the existence of having SOME guns. Then yes, those countries have guns, sure. Your post seemed to imply that the 3 nations you pointed out had the same level of gun ownership and laws, but that they had no mass shootings anyway. Maybe I misread it. The differences to me are very significant between the US laws and many other countries laws, or their cultural outlook on guns. The key to me is, as your article points out, the cultural outlook on guns. I have a friend who lived there for 2 years, Ill be curious to ask him what he knows of this. And yes, agree with you 100%. More guns DO NOT mean greater safety. Its the biggest crock going. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Haven’t read all of the discussion, sorry no time. But here’s one very important point. There are LOTS of restrictive gun laws and regulations on the books in the US. What the NRA and their bought and paid for politicians have taken to doing is getting loopholes passed that basically nullify most of those regulations. Here’s a GREAT video example. https://nowthisnews.com/videos/politics/how-easy-is-it-to-buy-a-gun-without-a-background-check-in-america Before you question whether this is true or not, let me tell you a fact: last year for what amounts to a job purpose I looked into purchasing a gun in the US, PA to be specific. I am a non citizen with no background check. I did not buy one, but it was on the table and I could have walked out with it. That, to me, is insane. Best quote coming out of parkland? ‘They should change the name of the AR-15 to ‘Marco Rubio’ because it’s so easy to buy. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Thoughts, prayers and now rental companies are ending their discounts for NRA members... hallelujah! Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Under 30, everyone is a liberal. Over 30, everyone is a conservative. People change. Yeah, I think this is mostly a generational thing. As in, it was true for a specific generation or two, but going forward I think how and where you grew up is going to be a lot more predictive than age. I’m also over 30 and pretty liberal. I also bristle at anyone calling themselves a conservative these days, just because even for the many people who have reasonably voted conservative in the past, it’s hard to find any delineation between being conservative and aligning with the American Republican Party these days, and that’s a party that was steeply anti-democratic even before Trump and I’ve run out of adjectives to describe them once the Trump era Link to post Share on other sites
iBeaver 409 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Yeah, I think this is mostly a generational thing. As in, it was true for a specific generation or two, but going forward I think how and where you grew up is going to be a lot more predictive than age. I’m also over 30 and pretty liberal. I also bristle at anyone calling themselves a conservative these days, just because even for the many people who have reasonably voted conservative in the past, it’s hard to find any delineation between being conservative and aligning with the American Republican Party these days, and that’s a party that was steeply anti-democratic even before Trump and I’ve run out of adjectives to describe them once the Trump era I missed that comment by Arp and I would disagree. Almost all my friends and myself to a certain extent all were Republicans in our first forays into being able to vote but all turned into Democrats as we got older. Overall I think the statement is wrong no matter how you arrange it. It's probably more where you live and how your parents voted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I missed that comment by Arp and I would disagree. Almost all my friends and myself to a certain extent all were Republicans in our first forays into being able to vote but all turned into Democrats as we got older. Overall I think the statement is wrong no matter how you arrange it. It's probably more where you live and how your parents voted. today's Republican party is a reactionary revolutionary party that has nothing in common with the party of Eisenhower. It's the Democrats who are the party of traditional main stream American values today. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 It feels like, for the first time in a long time, the winds of change are blowing. March For Our Lives is pretty inspiring. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 It feels like, for the first time in a long time, the winds of change are blowing. March For Our Lives is pretty inspiring. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 today's Republican party is a reactionary revolutionary party that has nothing in common with the party of Eisenhower. It's the Democrats who are the party of traditional main stream American values today. Feel like this is fair. I agree with Arp that people generally get more conservative as they get older. But there’s such a huge gap between the reasonable conservative positions of 20 years ago and what passes for a Republican (and to a much lesser extent, Canada’s PC party) today. The same extremes who wanted an extreme thing but didn’t want to think to hard about all the reasons it would not work or make sense were idealist liberals before and alt-righters now Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I agree with Arp that people generally get more conservative as they get older. There's whole meme that when you are young and idealistic you are liberal and when you are old and wise you are conservative. But I think it's also b/c people are looking at their own best interest ... young people rely on government for education, etc when setting out and middle aged people are comfortable and need less assistance. Meanwhile the elderly are raking in tons of government help in the form of medical treatment but still think the government is out to rob them blind. [just as generic stereotypes] Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Anyone but Serge surprised at the revelations about Hannity? Link to post Share on other sites
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