26 replies to this topic

[Indig0]

today my second entire bankroll of 40$ get broke.starting to play zoom 0.01/0.02. up to 59, then down to 52, then 50 and 0.with last 40$ I entired in zoom 0.1/0.25m two table. down to 10, up to 33, down to 5 up to 22 and 0.what to do? bankroll managemnt? yes, but how to play 0.01/0.02 when you lost 3$ in 5 sec in AA < 77 spot?I'm student, my monthly income is like ~100$. in my country average salary is 200$. I can have patience, to play micro stakes, but how much time needed to live from playing poker?which is your advice to me?thx.

[TweetTweet]

Plain and simple, quit playing poker for real money, since it looks like you can't afford it. Take that $100 and enjoy life !But if you really miss playing the game - well take, say $10 per month and play either some micro tournaments or the FCP privates. (but only for enjoyment purposes and not to make a living off it, since playing poker for a living isn't for everyone)

[Indig0]

TweetTweet, on 10 June 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Plain and simple, quit playing poker for real money,

why?

[TweetTweet]

Well in my opinion, you don't make enough money to live off - unless you live with your parents and don't really need that $100 month?Kinda silly if you admit to not needing that $100 since (if you do live with your parents) you could be helping them with their bills and / or paying your student fees. Why gamble what little money you are making on a game of chance?I've seen winners become losers - in the end that's where they all end up, if we continue.

Edited by TweetTweet, 10 June 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[Indig0]

TweetTweet, on 10 June 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

Well in my opinion, you don't make enough money to live off - unless you live with your parents and don't really need that $100 month?

it's not about money, salary, monthly income etc.advice about poker? with which bankroll I need to start, what limit to play? in one of three tournaments for 1$ with 2k-3k people i can make money, but higher...

[TweetTweet]

hmm.... ok my bad, I might have misunderstood your OP?!?Maybe someone else can give you advice on bankroll - but my opinion stands, someone making a low income of $100 / mth SHOULDN'T be playing poker! meh...but good luck to ya.

[Indig0]

TweetTweet, on 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

hmm.... ok my bad, I might have misunderstood your OP?!?Maybe someone else can give you advice on bankroll - but my opinion stands, someone making a low income of $100 / mth SHOULDN'T be playing poker! meh...but good luck to ya.

ok, your point is "100$ montly income is too small to play poker(for living)". You think none player from my country shouldn't play poker? we have poker club where biggest tournament is 35$ freezout.

[mrpaddyx]

If you have a roll of $40, you can easily play $0.01/$0.02 Holdem. Buy in for $1.60 at time. That gives you a minimum of 25 buy ins with 80 big blinds each time. This assumes you don't go broke each time you buy in. Also don't play zoom , just play regular speed holdem to get a feel for the game.

[TrueAce13]

Gun it in at $25nl

[TweetTweet]

Indig0, on 10 June 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

ok, your point is "100$ montly income is too small to play poker(for living)". You think none player from my country shouldn't play poker? we have poker club where biggest tournament is 35$ freezout.

Not exactly, no.$100 is fine to play recreationally, but in my opinion not for a living no. Then again, I don't know anything about your country...maybe that $100 = $1000 US or CDN? I can't even try to imagine how you're living off $100 a month to be honest (hell, my grocery bill is higher than that per month!).But this isn't the question you want answers to ...therefore I will hush up and refrain from responding any further and let a few experts from this site - reply to your questions on bankroll management.

[HighwayStar]

Indig0, on 10 June 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

I can have patience, to play micro stakes, but how much time needed to live from playing poker?

From your post it's clear you suck and are in no position to play poker for a living, regardless of how little it costs to live in your country. We all sucked at one point, you can get better. It will take a lot of time and patience and you will have to learn plenty of tough lessons along the way.Take your $40 bankroll and start managing it well. $40 at 25NL is 1.6 buy ins, you will go broke with a 1.6 buy-in bankroll about 99.5% of the time. With zoom poker, this could happen in literally 30 seconds.If you play cash games, stick to 20 buy ins minimum for now. This is 1c/2c for you now, if you stick the things I list below you will go broke a lot less (maybe never).This means you won't move up to 2c/5c until you have $100. You may be able to take shots from time to time with less money, but not 2c/5c full time until $100. You may end up playing 1c/2c for months. It may be very boring, but you will learn how to win and eventually you will be able to move up. If you think this is dull, it's nothing compared to what you need when playing for a living and needing to cash out regularly. I rarely play with less than 300 buy ins (for sngs), which probably equates to 60-100 for cash games.Important things in no particular order (most could come under the definition of tilt control)-learn how to quit a session - when you're stuck 5 buy ins, getting 3 outered everywhere and screaming obscenities at your computer screen, click that sit out button and go and get some fresh air or a cold drink. Cash game players have the luxury of being able to stop whenever they want. Use it. It will save you more money than you can possibly know right now. On the flipside, when you're flopping sets and stacking fools, play longer, but make sure you don't lose focus and start playing badly.-learn when you are not playing your best (and do something about it or quit). People always talk about A games, B games etc. It's quite hard to quantify exactly what these are, but they work well for explanations. You will want to aim to play your "A-game" as often as possible, however it is not going to happen all the time, so you want to make sure your B game is as good as possible. Right now whilst typing this, I'm 6 tabling MTTs and there is no way I'm playing close to my A-game, however I trust my B/C-game to be more than good enough for me to semi-switch off for half an hour. The difference between A/B/C is mostly down to focus and tilt. Avoid distractions, don't play for too long, take notes....there is a lot I could add here.-learn aversion to money. When you move up you may be dealing with amounts of money that seem enormous to you now. Right now I deal with days where I could win or lose the value of a computer. For those playing higher, it could be a car or house. If you start thinking about that kind of thing, it will affect your in-game decisions and it may start spilling over into the rest of your life, which is not good.-learn how to manage your bankroll (as above) - seriously stick to this. Very important. Variance is way way way more than you know, especially these days. Don't be afraid to take shots within your bankroll, especially if not playing for a living, but be careful you don't play too long whilst stuck money at higher limits.-don't play drunk. Ever. You can drink a little whilst playing if you wish, but playing in a drunken state has lost many a bankroll over the years. Similarly don't play tired, it's not quite as bad as playing drunk but a bad habit.-learn how to multitable - don't jump straight into this, but to make reasonable money playing online you're gonna have to play more than one table eventually. Once you feel comfortable at 1c/2c, stick in a table, then another. It will increase your hourly and you will be able to move up faster. Most professionals play at least 8, some many more. Seriously don't start off doing this, it could be a terrible mistake, just bear it in mind for the future.-be prepared to for your ego to take a hammering. This game is nasty, there will be days where it is impossible to win, regardless of how well you play. There may be a player who wins 5 flips in a row against you in 10 minutes, you may get set over set twice an half an hour, you may go on a 2 month break even stretch. Don't take this personally and don't expect luck to come back proportionally in your favour in the future, it doesn't work that way. Just play through it and don't lose money to downswing induced tilt.None of these deal with improving your actual card playing so you should also:-start reviewing your sessions and ask/post questions. On FCP, there is a friendly (I think) group of players in this forum : http://www.fullconta...hp?showforum=16 who will help out. Make sure you read posting guidelines first though (http://www.fullconta...showtopic=97855). Having poorly described hands is extremely annoying to the rest of us. Training sites aren't a bad idea but it would probably be quite an investment for your current bankroll to sign up to one of those.-most of all just play a lot of hands, make good playing decisions and try to enjoy it.As for how long it might take, it took me 18 months to even start winning, 18 months more to win reasonably consistently and I've been playing for a living for the last 3-4 years. I made (and sometimes still make) many rookie mistakes and I had to learn from them. It's a tough game. In todays climate the process from where you are to playing for a living will probably take longer. I do believe that almost anyone with the time and discipline can do it though.This was rather longer and more off-topic than necessary but it's a fairly slow Sunday afternoon so far.

[Pot Odds RAC]

TweetTweet, on 10 June 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Plain and simple, quit playing poker for real money, since it looks like you can't afford it. Take that $100 and enjoy life !But if you really miss playing the game - well take, say $10 per month and play either some micro tournaments or the FCP privates. (but only for enjoyment purposes and not to make a living off it, since playing poker for a living isn't for everyone)

I agree with this.

Indig0, on 10 June 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

why?

Because you've already indicated that you can't afford the variance of losing AA<77If you can't stand the variance, then you need to have less $ on the table to risk. If the reality of "less $ on the table" that you can risk approaches $0, then you need a new hobby where you don't lose all of your money. Poker isn't for everyone. Get a new hobby at which you're better or don't burn your money.

[TrueAce13]

I was hoping to read a sarcastic post from Phil, but that is really good advice and you should take it

[Indig0]

HighwayStar, on 10 June 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

From your post it's clear you suck and are in no position to play poker for a living, regardless of how little it costs to live in your country. We all sucked at one point, you can get better. It will take a lot of time and patience and you will have to learn plenty of tough lessons along the way.Take your $40 bankroll and start managing it well. $40 at 25NL is 1.6 buy ins, you will go broke with a 1.6 buy-in bankroll about 99.5% of the time. With zoom poker, this could happen in literally 30 seconds.If you play cash games, stick to 20 buy ins minimum for now. This is 1c/2c for you now, if you stick the things I list below you will go broke a lot less (maybe never).This means you won't move up to 2c/5c until you have $100. You may be able to take shots from time to time with less money, but not 2c/5c full time until $100. You may end up playing 1c/2c for months. It may be very boring, but you will learn how to win and eventually you will be able to move up. If you think this is dull, it's nothing compared to what you need when playing for a living and needing to cash out regularly. I rarely play with less than 300 buy ins (for sngs), which probably equates to 60-100 for cash games.Important things in no particular order (most could come under the definition of tilt control)-learn how to quit a session - when you're stuck 5 buy ins, getting 3 outered everywhere and screaming obscenities at your computer screen, click that sit out button and go and get some fresh air or a cold drink. Cash game players have the luxury of being able to stop whenever they want. Use it. It will save you more money than you can possibly know right now. On the flipside, when you're flopping sets and stacking fools, play longer, but make sure you don't lose focus and start playing badly.-learn when you are not playing your best (and do something about it or quit). People always talk about A games, B games etc. It's quite hard to quantify exactly what these are, but they work well for explanations. You will want to aim to play your "A-game" as often as possible, however it is not going to happen all the time, so you want to make sure your B game is as good as possible. Right now whilst typing this, I'm 6 tabling MTTs and there is no way I'm playing close to my A-game, however I trust my B/C-game to be more than good enough for me to semi-switch off for half an hour. The difference between A/B/C is mostly down to focus and tilt. Avoid distractions, don't play for too long, take notes....there is a lot I could add here.-learn aversion to money. When you move up you may be dealing with amounts of money that seem enormous to you now. Right now I deal with days where I could win or lose the value of a computer. For those playing higher, it could be a car or house. If you start thinking about that kind of thing, it will affect your in-game decisions and it may start spilling over into the rest of your life, which is not good.-learn how to manage your bankroll (as above) - seriously stick to this. Very important. Variance is way way way more than you know, especially these days. Don't be afraid to take shots within your bankroll, especially if not playing for a living, but be careful you don't play too long whilst stuck money at higher limits.-don't play drunk. Ever. You can drink a little whilst playing if you wish, but playing in a drunken state has lost many a bankroll over the years. Similarly don't play tired, it's not quite as bad as playing drunk but a bad habit.-learn how to multitable - don't jump straight into this, but to make reasonable money playing online you're gonna have to play more than one table eventually. Once you feel comfortable at 1c/2c, stick in a table, then another. It will increase your hourly and you will be able to move up faster. Most professionals play at least 8, some many more. Seriously don't start off doing this, it could be a terrible mistake, just bear it in mind for the future.-be prepared to for your ego to take a hammering. This game is nasty, there will be days where it is impossible to win, regardless of how well you play. There may be a player who wins 5 flips in a row against you in 10 minutes, you may get set over set twice an half an hour, you may go on a 2 month break even stretch. Don't take this personally and don't expect luck to come back proportionally in your favour in the future, it doesn't work that way. Just play through it and don't lose money to downswing induced tilt.None of these deal with improving your actual card playing so you should also:-start reviewing your sessions and ask/post questions. On FCP, there is a friendly (I think) group of players in this forum : http://www.fullconta...hp?showforum=16 who will help out. Make sure you read posting guidelines first though (http://www.fullconta...showtopic=97855). Having poorly described hands is extremely annoying to the rest of us. Training sites aren't a bad idea but it would probably be quite an investment for your current bankroll to sign up to one of those.-most of all just play a lot of hands, make good playing decisions and try to enjoy it.As for how long it might take, it took me 18 months to even start winning, 18 months more to win reasonably consistently and I've been playing for a living for the last 3-4 years. I made (and sometimes still make) many rookie mistakes and I had to learn from them. It's a tough game. In todays climate the process from where you are to playing for a living will probably take longer. I do believe that almost anyone with the time and discipline can do it though.This was rather longer and more off-topic than necessary but it's a fairly slow Sunday afternoon so far.

Thank you for your advices.

HighwayStar, on 10 June 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

-learn how to quit a session

this is the reason why I gor broke. in my case. at the beggining of the day had 52$ in an hour 46$. I cant quit when I did not even have my starting day money thats why I enteret in 0.1/0.25

TweetTweet, on 10 June 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

Not exactly, no.$100 is fine to play recreationally, but in my opinion not for a living no. Then again, I don't know anything about your country...maybe that $100 = $1000 US or CDN? I can't even try to imagine how you're living off $100 a month to be honest (hell, my grocery bill is higher than that per month!).But this isn't the question you want answers to ...therefore I will hush up and refrain from responding any further and let a few experts from this site - reply to your questions on bankroll management.

100$ = 100$ us. average salary is 200$ and its possible to live

[HighwayStar]

Indig0, on 10 June 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

this is the reason why I gor broke. in my case. at the beggining of the day had 52$ in an hour 46$. I cant quit when I did not even have my starting day money thats why I enteret in 0.1/0.25

Yea learning to quit is a big one, about half of my post is some version of it. For most people, grinding to get even is a terrible idea. Moving up to regain losses is up there with playing drunk as far as bad ideas go, maybe worse.

[Balloon guy]

Indig0, on 10 June 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Thank you for your advices.this is the reason why I gor broke. in my case. at the beggining of the day had 52$ in an hour 46$. I cant quit when I did not even have my starting day money thats why I enteret in 0.1/0.25100$ = 100$ us. average salary is 200$ and its possible to live

You must be in Russia

[Jam-Fly]

Don't try to learn to run before you can walk. If you're starting out in the game, you should not be worried about 'going pro'. Focus on getting better in your spare time. If you're good enough, you'll progress up through the levels and possibly start making enough money to live on or to supplement your current income. However, only a tiny percentage of players actually make enough money to live off.

[Indig0]

HighwayStar, on 10 June 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Yea learning to quit is a big one, about half of my post is some version of it. For most people, grinding to get even is a terrible idea. Moving up to regain losses is up there with playing drunk as far as bad ideas go, maybe worse.

drunk? never.

Balloon guy, on 10 June 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

You must be in Russia

sort ofone more think.your thoughts about: anyone can be a good poker player? not necessarily like Ungar, Negreanu, Ivey, Hellmuth but a good one with decent resultViktor Blom: "I started off with fifteen thousand Swedish kroner and after three weeks I had two million dollars." this words cant give me peace

[Pot Odds RAC]

Why would you think that anyone could be a good poker player?

[rcgs59]

great advice from Phil (Highwaystar)Read lots of books on poker, take it 1 day at a time. Learn patience, don't play to many hands with crap.