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This is just an issue that puzzles me. This isn't necessarily a Dem or Repub thing because as we found out in the VP debate, both are against it.Basically, if you're against it, why? How does it affect you if two dudes or two gals you've never met get married? Does it cost you money? Do they get benefits you don't? What's the deal? Now, I'd rather not read that it's morally wrong, or not a traditional marriage, because that's simply applying your belief system to other people, which I think is wrong, and a lot of what's wrong with this country.So basically, how are you actually affected by two gay people being dumb enough to want to get married? How does it hurt you?

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Objection. Please don't speculate on Mr. Shabadoo's mental state. Now then, will you clarify your statement as to your knowledge of the meaning and proper use of the phrase in question. We have evide

I let my attorney do the heavy lifting.

so many fallen brothers.

It's just nonsense. The "sanctity of marriage". What a crock. When the divorce rate hit 50%, marriage lost its sanctity license.
The divorce rate is 50%. If you add in marriages with cheating spouses (which effectively negates the marriage and renders it a sham), the number probably rises to 80%.Marriages fail in this country because of one main reason: deficient character. Failed people result in failed marriages.
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This is just an issue that puzzles me. This isn't necessarily a Dem or Repub thing because as we found out in the VP debate, both are against it.Basically, if you're against it, why? How does it affect you if two dudes or two gals you've never met get married? Does it cost you money? Do they get benefits you don't? What's the deal? Now, I'd rather not read that it's morally wrong, or not a traditional marriage, because that's simply applying your belief system to other people, which I think is wrong, and a lot of what's wrong with this country.So basically, how are you actually affected by two gay people being dumb enough to want to get married? How does it hurt you?
Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
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Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
I am sure to you it is a minor issue. To me, blatant discrimination is not a minor issue (especially when it involves denying perfectly good parents from adopting kids and getting them out of the black hole that is DCF.....do some research on how bad the foster care system is in most states and then come tell me how limiting the number of real homes available to orphans is a minor issue)And, since I live in FL (a state that does not allow homosexuals to adopt and has perhaps the shittiest of all foster care agencies) and my wife works with DCF routinely I have some pretty good insight on this issue.
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Which is why, if anything, it should be a state issue, which is McCains position. Personally I dont think gay couples should be given adoptive children, and the orphanage I work with doesnt let same sex couple adopt, but that is a minor issue.
As Suited asked, why not? Do you think homo is contagious? So, you'd rather have a kid sit in an orphanage until he/she turns 18 rather than have that child be placed in home with a gay couple, where it would undoubtedly be loved and nurtured and educated well? How come? I do give you enough credit to know the difference between being a gay man and a pedophile, so that can't be your reasoning. And please, don't give me the excuse of a "regular" couple being denied the chance to adopt because the gays scooped up all the kids first. I haven't done any research, but I'm thinking that there are tons of unwanted kids in this world. Why shouldn't a stable couple be allowed to adopt just because they take a different route in the bedroom, and for all the times I've tried a girl to let me give her anal, it's not that different a route.But I don't want this thread to devolve into adoption and abortion.If regular couple marrying is a state issue, then I'm fine with gay marriage being a state issue. If I marry gay in California, will my gay marriage be recognized if I move to FL or NY? Will I still be able to file my taxes jointly, with my hunky spouse and have hospital visitation, etc?
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I am sure to you it is a minor issue. To me, blatant discrimination is not a minor issue (especially when it involves denying perfectly good parents from adopting kids and getting them out of the black hole that is DCF.....do some research on how bad the foster care system is in most states and then come tell me how limiting the number of real homes available to orphans is a minor issue)And, since I live in FL (a state that does not allow homosexuals to adopt and has perhaps the shittiest of all foster care agencies) and my wife works with DCF routinely I have some pretty good insight on this issue.
People overidentify gays with pedophiles, but the statistics are overwhelming: the vast majority of pedophiles are straight dudes hitting on little girls. Disgusting, but true.
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and for all the times I've tried a girl to let me give her anal, it's not that different a route.
I'll ask, because no one else will. What has your success rate been?
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It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
is it better or worse than being shuffled around, never finding a permanent home at all?shame there's not much data, but I've heard plenty of promising anecdotal evidence about adoptees in gay families.
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It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
please, do some research on the state of DCF systems in this country and then come back and tell me you are not willing to risk the potential of a little less healthy psychological development for the much higher likelihood that they get a loving and stable home and they are not subjected to the psychological abuse of being in the DCF system.I honestly think you will be swayed.
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It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
I agree with this. The world is 50% men and 50% women. To deal with the world in a mentally healthy fashion, it is best if a child is raised by a man and a woman. It's just logical. Both viewpoints and psychologies are vital to forming a complete person.That's not to say 2 women or 2 men CANNOT raise a child successfully, but if a choice can be made, you must defer to a male-female scenario.I think gay people are behaving in an incredibly selfish manner in wanting to raise an infant. It is treating kids like a car or a house. I want it "just because", and "just because" I want it, I should be allowed to have it. You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
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You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
child is better off:1) in DCF2) with gay parentssetting aside, the religious aspects or the political aspects or the moral aspects....lets look at the practical aspects.Anyone, with any sense, is picking option 2 in the above scenario any time. DCF sucks. So, if you are really wanting to put "the child's well being above all else" you should be allowing gay adoption. If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
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If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
really? someone on this forum was discussing his and his wife's struggles to adopt a child, and it seemed like his options were basically limited to looking abroad. what's the deal?
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I think gay people are behaving in an incredibly selfish manner in wanting to raise an infant. It is treating kids like a car or a house. I want it "just because", and "just because" I want it, I should be allowed to have it. You have to think of the child's well being above all else, and put your own selfish desires under wraps. It's too important a responsibility to be undertaken for personal aggrandizement.
You cannot lump all homosexual couples seeking to adopt into this category. Maybe there are gay couples who adopt for those reasons, but I think the numbers are low. Very low. People, hetero and homo, do not adopt a child "just because". Adoption is a very serious process. One that is not entered into lightly. I think many gay couples adopt because they want to help better a childs life. And they should be allowed too. Leaving a child in foster care, or whatever its called in that state, becuase you think a child needs both a male and female parent is beyond ridiculous. Two males, who truly love a child, are more than qualified to raise that child. The love and attention recieved will more than make up for not having a female parent.
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really? someone on this forum was discussing his and his wife's struggles to adopt a child, and it seemed like his options were basically limited to looking abroad. what's the deal?
there might be limited options for adopting the child they want in their area. I know that Florida's DCF is overrun. Bottom line, it might be hard in some areas to find a child to adopt who is the prospective parents preferred race, in their preferred age range, etc. (Everyone wants a baby....no one wants the 7 year old orphan....or so I have heard) However, the gay people I know dont want to be choosy they just want the right to have a child so they can pass their love and knowledge onto to someone before they pass into the void.
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child is better off:1) in DCF2) with gay parentssetting aside, the religious aspects or the political aspects or the moral aspects....lets look at the practical aspects.Anyone, with any sense, is picking option 2 in the above scenario any time. DCF sucks. So, if you are really wanting to put "the child's well being above all else" you should be allowing gay adoption. If there were enough straight parents out there to adopt all the children, then the answer might change (from a practical point of view). But that is not the case.
If those are the only choices I agree...but they rarely if ever are. There are plenty of qualified two gender families that want to adopt in the US and can't. Thats why they have to turn to overseas agencies, like the one Im affiliated with, FANA. We tried for two years and couldnt find an agency, and wound up adopting my son in Colombia.
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If those are the only choices I agree...but they rarely if ever are. There are plenty of two gender families that want to adopt in the US and can't. Thats why they have to turn to overseas agencies, like the one Im affiliated with, FANA.
I think for a lot of kids who are not in the desirable adopting age, homosexual couples might be their best bet. There are still tons of kids who bounce around foster care.and the mere fact that this scenario could occur (even if only rarely in your opinion) that should still be enough for gay adoption to be legal.
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It has nothing to do with "contagion" or "pedophiles". I think every child needs a parent of both genders for healthy psycholgical development.
Disputable.Either way, that's an issue for the adoption agencies to decide, not the Federal government, and not even the state government. I don't see why being gay becomes an litmus test on the adoption issue. Why can't agencies simply factor it in with other considerations? Why does it have to be black or white with only this issue?
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Disputable.Either way, that's an issue for the adoption agencies to decide, not the Federal government, and not even the state government. I don't see why being gay becomes an litmus test on the adoption issue. Why can't agencies simply factor it in with other considerations? Why does it have to be black or white with only this issue?
It's disputable, but its not unreasonable to suggest that the most healthy situation for a child is to have a parent of both genders. How that should relate to adoption policies, I'm not in a position to say. But certainly there are deep psychological consequences associated with having a missing parent, or with having only a single gender present in early childhood.
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If those are the only choices I agree...but they rarely if ever are. There are plenty of qualified two gender families that want to adopt in the US and can't. Thats why they have to turn to overseas agencies, like the one Im affiliated with, FANA. We tried for two years and couldnt find an agency, and wound up adopting my son in Colombia.
the goaltender? man, that would've made a great story.
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You cannot lump all homosexual couples seeking to adopt into this category. Maybe there are gay couples who adopt for those reasons, but I think the numbers are low. Very low. People, hetero and homo, do not adopt a child "just because". Adoption is a very serious process. One that is not entered into lightly. I think many gay couples adopt because they want to help better a childs life. And they should be allowed too. Leaving a child in foster care, or whatever its called in that state, becuase you think a child needs both a male and female parent is beyond ridiculous. Two males, who truly love a child, are more than qualified to raise that child. The love and attention recieved will more than make up for not having a female parent.
Love is not enough. Good intentions are not enough. All the available studies conclude that a male-female scenario is superior to a gay scenario in terms of healthy and happy development of an infant. It's pretty damn obvious too. With older kids, it's debatable, but with infants it's not.However, if there are truly, absolutely, no straight couples around to adopt a kid, the gay option is better than foster care. But I doubt that ever happens.
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