Jump to content


Quiz Question #20


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

Poll: Pot Limit Omaha (144 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you do?

  1. Call (76 votes [52.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.78%

  2. Fold (68 votes [47.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.22%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 DanielNegreanu

DanielNegreanu

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Root Admin
  • 8,249 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 21 August 2006 - 02:28 PM

You are playing $100-$200 blind Pot Limit Omaha and come in raising to $600 with 3 :D 4 :D 5 :club: 8 :D A very tight player re-raised the pot, making it $2100 to go and only had $1100 left. Now, another tight player goes all in for a total of $3600. You have to call $3000 more in what will most certainly be a three way pot. What would you do?
Posted Image

#2 gilbertology

gilbertology

    o0o

  • Members
  • 2,262 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 21 August 2006 - 02:41 PM

You are getting pot odds, therefore you should call. Tight player might have aces or kings. Since the other guy will also make the call and be all-in you don't have to worry about him going all-in on the flop costing you more to draw to a possible straight or flush. Your hand doesn't contain any high cards, while the other two probly do so you're getting the odds preflop. Also no hand is a huge favorite in Omaha even AAKK vs 275J
Fully loaded satellites
will conquer nothing but our minds

#3 jayboogie

jayboogie

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,493 posts
  • Location:Toronto

Posted 21 August 2006 - 02:41 PM

I would call given the description of my 2 opponents being very tight, which means they likely have AAXX and KKXX type hands. My hand fares well against these types of hands and stands to win enough to warrant calling given the pot odds.

#4 gilbertology

gilbertology

    o0o

  • Members
  • 2,262 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 21 August 2006 - 03:10 PM

ok some quick calculations. Blinds=$300+your $600+$3600+$3200=$7700 in the pot and $3000 for you to play. You need a 28.04% chance to win to make the call profitable. Will you have those odds? most likely, although if the two have your flush draws dominated you could be in some trouble. If someone has an Omaha calculator run our hand against AAJ9 and QQAK random suits and see what the percentages are.
Fully loaded satellites
will conquer nothing but our minds

#5 MrNiceGuy

MrNiceGuy

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,142 posts

Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:23 PM

I voted call, even against KsTsKdQh and AcJcAd9d you have 29.5% chance to win.But, if a couple of loose players folded before the action started (such that it's likely that they held low cards), then I might be inclined to fold, since there's now reason to suspect that my hand is likely to be more dead than I might normally expect.
Then you go to da box for 2 minutes by yourself, you feel shame... then you get free.

#6 David_Nicoson

David_Nicoson

    Official Forum Me

  • Members
  • 4,418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Poker<br />Poker<br />Sex<br />Sleep<br />baseball<br />softball<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Axis and Allies and other lesser board games<br />Chess<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker
  • Favorite Poker Game:pot-limit Euchre

Posted 21 August 2006 - 08:45 PM

I think we need to count both stacks all-in for our calculations. We can't tell if the blinds are one of the raisers, but we'll assume not.Our pot odds in the main pot are:(600 + 3300 x 2 + 300) / 2700 = 7500/2700 = 2.8:1 or 1/3.8 = 27%twodimes cruncher gives us some numbers. With the assumption that the two raisers have all broadway cards, we're right around 27% if our suits are dominated. We're basically free-rolling on the possibility of having a live suit. This is a call.
pokenum  -mc 500000  -o 8s 5s 4c 3c  - as js ts ac  - ad kd ah qh Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose	tie   %tie	 EV8s 5s  4c  3c  197190  39.44  302810  60.56	  0   0.00  0.394As Js  Ts  Ac   78908  15.78  343318  68.66  77774  15.55  0.236Ad Kd  Ah  Qh  146128  29.23  276098  55.22  77774  15.55  0.370pokenum  -mc 500000  -o 3c 4c 5s 8s  - ac ts as jc  - ad kd ah qh Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose	tie   %tie	 EV8s 5s  4c  3c  157337  31.47  342663  68.53	  0   0.00  0.315As Ts  Ac  Jc  117973  23.59  304063  60.81  77964  15.59  0.314Ad Kd  Ah  Qh  146726  29.35  275310  55.06  77964  15.59  0.371pokenum  -mc 500000  -o 3c 4c 5s 8s  - as ts ac jc  - ad kh qh qd Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose  tie  %tie	 EV8s 5s  4c  3c  136119  27.22  363881  72.78	0  0.00  0.272As Ts  Ac  Jc  184201  36.84  315042  63.01  757  0.15  0.369Ad Qd  Kh  Qh  178923  35.78  320320  64.06  757  0.15  0.359pokenum  -mc 500000  -o 8s 5s 4c 3c  - as th ac jc  - ad kd ah qh Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose	tie   %tie	 EV8s 5s  4c  3c  198316  39.66  301684  60.34	  0   0.00  0.397As Ac  Jc  Th   89430  17.89  332497  66.50  78073  15.61  0.257Ad Kd  Ah  Qh  134181  26.84  287746  57.55  78073  15.61  0.346

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Monday, August 21st, 2006, 6:28 PM, said:

You are playing $100-$200 blind Pot Limit Omaha and come in raising to $600 with 3 :) 4 :) 5 :club: 8 :D
I personally wouldn't raise with that in full ring with the gaps at the top. I'd hold out for 3 :) 6 :club: 7 :D 8 :D.P.S., I am weak-tight.Edit: Cocked up the math the first time. Gilbertology is wise.
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#7 gilbertology

gilbertology

    o0o

  • Members
  • 2,262 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:40 PM

I also screwed up the math by $100, unless Daniel edited his op to trick me. It's fixed now, odds we need are 28.04% instead of 28.3%, that extra $100 could be the difference between a call and a fold :club:
Fully loaded satellites
will conquer nothing but our minds

#8 Canada

Canada

    High Priest of the Church of Perpetual Spanking

  • Members
  • 1,532 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:27 AM

Given preflop advantages are a lot smaller in Omaha pot odds would dictate a call.
"I was under the impression that if it wasn't for the moons gravitational pull the ocean would just float into the air" Loismustdiet

"I enjoy watchin people make fulls of themselves." Mattnxtc

#9 gobears

gobears

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 6,096 posts
  • Location:Los Gatos, CA

Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:38 AM

CallIf both opponents are very tight/tight then one probably has AAxx while the other one has a good chance of having a broadway type hand. It's likely that our straight/low card outs are clean plus we're doublesuited which gives us a better chance that one of our two flush draws is good as well.
Work to live, don't live to work - Todd Harrison

#10 bdc30

bdc30

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 9,407 posts
  • Location:Dutton, Ontario

Posted 22 August 2006 - 12:28 PM

Ok, I'll be the first one to say fold.Sure the correct odds might state that we're 28.xxxxx % to winand might be getting the correct odds (by the slightest of margins)but with only $600 in the pot, needing to call of the rest of our 3 grand,I'd rather be the guy with AAxx in this spot than the guy with our hand.Plus, I don't raise this pf from early position, maybe limp, which makesit a much easier fold.

#11 The Nuts

The Nuts

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 785 posts
  • Location:Penn State University

Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:45 PM

The odds dictate a call. So mathematically, it's correct to call.But you're definitely behind in this pot and it is possible that your flush may be trumped by other clubs or spades, which would leave you with less outs than you expected. I'm expecting one of these two to have AAxx double suited (probably the all in push).I make this call. It's a cash game after all, I could always rebuy in if I don't mind sparing the money. I'd probably lay it down in most tournament situations.
SuperUberBob: I ****ing hate this game
Zach6668: lol
Zubial: stop playing it
SuperUberBob: I like playing, just not the losing part
Zach6668: LOLZ

#12 Sluggo

Sluggo

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 1,019 posts

Posted 22 August 2006 - 04:11 PM

View Postbdc30, on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 1:28 PM, said:

Ok, I'll be the first one to say fold.Sure the correct odds might state that we're 28.xxxxx % to winand might be getting the correct odds (by the slightest of margins)but with only $600 in the pot, needing to call of the rest of our 3 grand,I'd rather be the guy with AAxx in this spot than the guy with our hand.
HUH? :club: Consider a hold'em example: You have 72o and your opponent has 77. There is $1,000,000 in the pot. Your opponent pushes for $1. This is the easiest call in the world.Obviously you'd rather be the guy holding 77, but folding 72o because you don't like your hand is idiotic.
(sw)

#13 canadapoker5

canadapoker5

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 28 posts
  • Location:Owen Sound, Ontario Canada
  • Favorite Poker Game:Hold`em

Posted 23 August 2006 - 12:09 PM

With the odds the way they are I would call here.

#14 BudBundy

BudBundy

    The Sacred Geometry of Chance

  • Members
  • 3,754 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Turk
  • Favorite Poker Game:PLO

Posted 23 August 2006 - 12:51 PM

I'd accidently hit fold and make sure everyone knows it was a misclick.

#15 xtxoxpxd

xtxoxpxd

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 108 posts

Posted 23 August 2006 - 11:28 PM

my intial thought was fold. then it was, wait, these players are sharing aces, call! then it was wait, is my hand even a favorite against 2 aces?i decided the answer was fold before i ran my simulation.29% favorite against two AA hands, i didn't randomize the xx but i made one pretty strong and one very strong.since we are essentially putting in our last 2400 for a 9000 pot, we need to win 26.6% of the time. so... call!

#16 iggymcfly

iggymcfly

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 2,654 posts
  • Location:Missoula, MT
  • Interests:Poker, football, sitting on my ass

Posted 24 August 2006 - 12:16 AM

I voted fold. Our opponents certainly don't need good aces to make this kind of move, and if we're against something like KK98 and AA54, we're in a world of hurt. Just because we have good pot odds if we're against big pairs that don't dominate us at all, doesn't mean that isn't made up for by the few times we're 10% to win the pot.
Lady luck's my fuck-buddy.

#17 xtxoxpxd

xtxoxpxd

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 108 posts

Posted 24 August 2006 - 09:26 AM

View Postiggymcfly, on Thursday, August 24th, 2006, 1:16 AM, said:

I voted fold. Our opponents certainly don't need good aces to make this kind of move, and if we're against something like KK98 and AA54, we're in a world of hurt. Just because we have good pot odds if we're against big pairs that don't dominate us at all, doesn't mean that isn't made up for by the few times we're 10% to win the pot.
but do "very tight players" reraise the pot with KK98?

#18 David_Nicoson

David_Nicoson

    Official Forum Me

  • Members
  • 4,418 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indianapolis
  • Interests:Poker<br />Poker<br />Sex<br />Sleep<br />baseball<br />softball<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Axis and Allies and other lesser board games<br />Chess<br />Poker<br />Poker<br />Poker
  • Favorite Poker Game:pot-limit Euchre

Posted 24 August 2006 - 11:26 AM

View Postiggymcfly, on Thursday, August 24th, 2006, 4:16 AM, said:

I voted fold. Our opponents certainly don't need good aces to make this kind of move, and if we're against something like KK98 and AA54, we're in a world of hurt. Just because we have good pot odds if we're against big pairs that don't dominate us at all, doesn't mean that isn't made up for by the few times we're 10% to win the pot.
For what it's worth, have some numbers.
With no live suits:pokenum  -mc 500000  -o kc ks 9s 8c  - ad ah 4h 5h  - 3c 4c 5s 8s Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose	tie  %tie	 EVKs 9s  Kc  8c  194334  38.87  304147  60.83   1519  0.30  0.390Ad Ah  5h  4h  212805  42.56  256673  51.33  30522  6.10  0.4568s 5s  4c  3c   60820  12.16  407139  81.43  32041  6.41  0.154With one live suit:pokenum  -mc 500000  -o kh ks 9s 8c  - ad ah 4h 5h  - 3c 4c 5s 8s Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards			 win   %win	lose  %lose	tie  %tie	 EVKs 9s  8c  Kh  170048  34.01  328416  65.68   1536  0.31  0.342Ad Ah  5h  4h  205383  41.08  263931  52.79  30686  6.14  0.4418s 5s  4c  3c   92347  18.47  375431  75.09  32222  6.44  0.217

QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#19 greatwhite

greatwhite

    Poker Forum Veteran

  • Members
  • 4,089 posts
  • Location:Connecticut
  • Interests:poker, skiing, movies, following the yankees, knicks, and jets , and traveling
  • Favorite Poker Game:Pot Limit Omaha

Posted 24 August 2006 - 05:09 PM

It's time to gamble.

#20 LooseCannon

LooseCannon

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 107 posts

Posted 27 August 2006 - 12:39 AM

Two tight players are almost certain to have AA hands here. The second player is virtually certain to have AA and not to have KK, especially if he is putting in the third raise after a very tight player reraises. A very tight player usually won't commit the majority of his stack preflop without aces.Your hand is potentially huge favorite in a three-way pot (45%) if your opponents have hands like A :club: A :D J :D T :) and A :club: A :) K :) Q :D. You are mainly in some trouble, but still not horribly dead if your opponents hold higher draws in both of your suits. If your opponents are really tight, they might not just have AA, but will also have higher coordinated cards that are less likely to interfere with the low straight or two pair that you are hoping to make (plus, they are more likely to hold each others outs). It's actually better for you if your opponents wouldn't raise with a hand like AA73 but would only play something like AAKQ or AAJ9 this way.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users