hank213 1,823 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Haven't played much stud. Maybe a handful of times online and a handful at home games during the occassional dealers choice.7 Card Stud High ($0.04/$0.08), Ante $0.01, Bring-In $0.02 (converter)3rd Street - (1.25 SB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart:___callsSeat 5: xx xx K:heart:___callsSeat 6: xx xx 5:club:___callsSeat 7: xx xx 2:spade:___brings-inHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club:___calls4th Street - (3.75 SB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart:___raises___callsSeat 5: xx xx K:heart: 8:heart:___foldsSeat 6: xx xx 5:club: J:club:___foldsSeat 7: xx xx 2:spade: J:diamond:___foldsHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart:___bets___raises5th Street - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond:___checksHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club:___checks6th Street - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond: K:diamond:___checksHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club: 6:heart:___checksRiver - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond: K:diamond: xx___raises___raisesHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club: 6:heart: J:spade:___bets___raises___callsTotal pot: (15.88 BB)Simply calling the bring in has been pretty standard here (at this table) and I didn't really want to scare a naked K off since I'm 99% certain I can get kings up to pay me off if I hit trips (or maybe even naked kings if I stay disguised, if I don't I mitigated my investment.Full on 5th street check and let him catch up or lead out?99% certain I should have bet on 6th but I was salivating at the idea of c/r. So how bad are my thought processes here? Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You have to bet 5th street there. He is on either a flush or straight draw, and he is going to pay to see it.I can't tell from the converter, but was it capped on the river?In stud you want to check raise your deceptive hands when they have something. Checking TT showing, is fairly transparent, and you may not get paid off even if they do get there. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You have to bet 5th street there. He is on either a flush or straight draw, and he is going to pay to see it.I can't tell from the converter, but was it capped on the river?In stud you want to check raise your deceptive hands when they have something. Checking TT showing, is fairly transparent, and you may not get paid off even if they do get there.Exactly. You slowplay (maybe) if your hand is hidden. If your hand is up, then you just bet, you don't ever slow play, because they are so much more likely to check behind you. Link to post Share on other sites
hank213 1,823 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yeah capped on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yeah capped on the river.In the stakes you are playing, he probably would have capped if you'd bet on 5th and 6ths, so you probably just cost yourself money. Link to post Share on other sites
hank213 1,823 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 In the stakes you are playing, he probably would have capped if you'd bet on 5th and 6ths, so you probably just cost yourself money.Kind of what I thought. Figured I missed two bets. But he didn't seem too spewy and might have just called the 3 bet on the river if I had lead out all the way. Or at least that's what I'm telling myself to feel better. Same line if I have rolled up 10s with a pair of 7s showing? What if I've got my original hand and his board is reading like Aces up? Or 4 flushing on 5th/6th?Again, I'm quite new to approaching this from a strategic/value extraction standpoint. It's usually been straight gambling for me.I'm sure I've got SS around here but I'm experimenting with learning by doing and letting my feel guide me as opposed to all the fancy book learnin. Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I agree, micro limit cash games you rarely want to make fancy plays, if you feel your hand is good put money in to extract value.And btw you suck. Just saying... Link to post Share on other sites
hank213 1,823 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I agree, micro limit cash games you rarely want to make fancy plays, if you feel your hand is good put money in to extract value.And btw you suck. Just saying...mmmmmmmmmmm there it is. Bout damn time somebody said it. Link to post Share on other sites
Chet Chetterson 0 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 mmmmmmmmmmm there it is. Bout damn time somebody said it.I was thinking that myself while I was typing that. Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Note to self- post in this thread when time allows... Link to post Share on other sites
HangukMiguk 8 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 also, where was the completion on 3rd?c'mon...i thought that was a common sense complete/call on 3rd if the K raises.you have a harder time being able to define your opponent's hand by NOT completing there.Bet 5th and 6th.everything else looks standard. Link to post Share on other sites
hank213 1,823 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 Is scram banned again? I've been waiting for him to come back and unleash fury. Link to post Share on other sites
staniv 0 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Haven't played much stud. Maybe a handful of times online and a handful at home games during the occassional dealers choice.7 Card Stud High ($0.04/$0.08), Ante $0.01, Bring-In $0.02 (converter)3rd Street - (1.25 SB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart:___callsSeat 5: xx xx K:heart:___callsSeat 6: xx xx 5:club:___callsSeat 7: xx xx 2:spade:___brings-inHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club:___calls4th Street - (3.75 SB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart:___raises___callsSeat 5: xx xx K:heart: 8:heart:___foldsSeat 6: xx xx 5:club: J:club:___foldsSeat 7: xx xx 2:spade: J:diamond:___foldsHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart:___bets___raises5th Street - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond:___checksHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club:___checks6th Street - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond: K:diamond:___checksHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club: 6:heart:___checksRiver - (7.88 BB)Seat 3: xx xx 5:heart: 4:heart: 2:diamond: K:diamond: xx___raises___raisesHero: 7:heart: T:diamond: T:club: T:heart: 7:club: 6:heart: J:spade:___bets___raises___callsTotal pot: (15.88 BB)Simply calling the bring in has been pretty standard here (at this table) and I didn't really want to scare a naked K off since I'm 99% certain I can get kings up to pay me off if I hit trips (or maybe even naked kings if I stay disguised, if I don't I mitigated my investment.Full on 5th street check and let him catch up or lead out?99% certain I should have bet on 6th but I was salivating at the idea of c/r. So how bad are my thought processes here? complete it. bet 4th-7th raise when u canu need to rethink that process with the kings. if u know he got pair of kings on 3rd it a fold. chasing is losing. if u complete and he reraises u go from there decide if u want to go to 5th to see if u improve if u dont beleive him or fold. sorry if my reply is little jumbled have trouble puttin thoughts into words Link to post Share on other sites
hank213 1,823 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 complete it. bet 4th-7th raise when u canu need to rethink that process with the kings. if u know he got pair of kings on 3rd it a fold. chasing is losing. if u complete and he reraises u go from there decide if u want to go to 5th to see if u improve if u dont beleive him or fold. sorry if my reply is little jumbled have trouble puttin thoughts into words99% sure he didn't have kings on 3rd. i wouldn't have been surprised if he had AKx with 2 of a suit at this table. In other words I thought he was chasing and I kind of wanted him to catch up. I know I missed bets there though and have not repeated that particular mistake since. Well, at least not much.So is completing on 3rd to extract a couple sb's worth from the other 3 or 4 that may stick it out through 4th or maybe to 5th? The way I've seen these tables play is usually 3-5 in until betting on 5th then it will drop to 2 or 3. So by completing with a middle split pair we're making up those small bets on hands I do improve to keep me ahead or even of those times when the K spikes for kings showing and I don't improve and have to dump it, right?Like I said, I've always approached stud for pure gamble so I need to understand some thought processes here. Link to post Share on other sites
Win.by.TKo 0 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Like the OP, I also lack practical playing experience. However, I am in the middle of 'Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players.' The book mentions loose games specifically. It advises not to come in with a raise often on 3rd without a strong hand, as the bet is unlikely to eliminate anybody. Split T's is not in the strong group. I have no problem with the limp. If your read is a draw, then do not 3bet 4th street, as it is difficult to price anybody out. You are just adding to the pot, which generally makes the villain(s) correct to chase on later streets. Instead, wait until 5th street, where it would then be incorrect/less correct for villain to continue chasing. As played, the villain's 4th street raise is interesting. They raised despite your pair is higher than both their up cards. How likely are they to raise with a draw? It is possible the villain is sitting on a hidden pair JJ+, 2 pr or trips, which you have crushed at the moment. Note that there is a dead 5. The villian might be raising to buy a free card on 5th street.It is for this reason that you should bet 5th Street. If they are still on a draw, you must charge them for the privilege, then evaluate villain's response. Once you fill up on 6th Street, it's jam time. The only thing to fear here is Kings full with kings being the buried pair from the beginning.As always, all of this is dependent on any reads you have on the villain.That is my thought process. Please advise if there are flaws to my thinking. Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Like the OP, I also lack practical playing experience. However, I am in the middle of 'Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players.' ($0.04/$0.08), Ante $0.01, Bring-In $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
Win.by.TKo 0 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thank you for your reply, AmScary. It was in depth and insightful. This board is blessed to have somebody of your knowledge, understanding, and compassion to help out Stud players, where good books on general strategical ideas are lacking. You really should transfer your knowledge in prose. You can call it 'Dr. Seuss Plays Stud.' This will help newer players learn before they move on to more advanced concepts. I look forward to your writings. Link to post Share on other sites
AmScray 355 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 My post wasn't in-depth. I was just pointing out that you're completely dumb, given that everything you said was predicated on a body of information that is completely irrelevant to this situation... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Haven't played much stud. Maybe a handful of times online and a handful at home games during the occassional dealers choice.7 Card Stud High ($0.04/$0.08), Ante $0.01, Bring-In $0.02 (converter)Simply calling the bring in has been pretty standard here (at this table) and I didn't really want to scare a naked K off since I'm 99% certain I can get kings up to pay me off if I hit trips (or maybe even naked kings if I stay disguised, if I don't I mitigated my investment.Full on 5th street check and let him catch up or lead out?99% certain I should have bet on 6th but I was salivating at the idea of c/r. So how bad are my thought processes here?If calling the bring in is standard at your table, be thankful. Then raise. A table off stud players who are just calling are going to be weak/passive; the best villains to play against.Again, when you have a T showing, and you make trips, it's not very disguised. Rather than playing tricky (FPS; fancy play syndrome) just straight value bet at micro-limit games. Raising 3rd is the best play because we're raising for value and we're able to better define villains hand.Bet 5th and 6th, every single time. You are losing too much value in not doing so. Betting makes you money and helps you understand you're opponents holding.In limit games, value betting is king. You hardly need to get tricky, just stick to tight starting requirements and value bet the shit out of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Win.by.TKo 0 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 My post wasn't in-depth. I was just pointing out that you're completely dumb, given that everything you said was predicated on a body of information that is completely irrelevant to this situation...If that is your opinion, then that is what you should have posted. Instead your post's aim was not to help players learn how to think in a game fairly new to them. You aim is to try to make me feel like an idiot and discouraged me from posting here again. It worked. Congrats. You are a top notched @$$hole in your prime.Thank you, KingJames, for presenting your thoughts and advice. It gives me something to work with on my way out the door. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 If that is your opinion, then that is what you should have posted. Instead your post's aim was not to help players learn how to think in a game fairly new to them. You aim is to try to make me feel like an idiot and discouraged me from posting here again. It worked. Congrats. You are a top notched @$$hole in your prime.Thank you, KingJames, for presenting your thoughts and advice. It gives me something to work with on my way out the door.Don't leave, just ignore people who don't contribute. There are good players here who will help you improve.Anyway, there is never much action in the stud forum, so you might as well stay, post hands, and we'll try and help one another improve. Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 complete it. bet 4th-7th raise when u canu need to rethink that process with the kings. if u know he got pair of kings on 3rd it a fold. chasing is losing. if u complete and he reraises u go from there decide if u want to go to 5th to see if u improve if u dont beleive him or fold. sorry if my reply is little jumbled have trouble puttin thoughts into wordsthe idea is there if you chase you do lose. but folding Kings is questionable. You need to be aware whats on board across the table and count the cards and color as well.most decisions need to be made by 3rd street, 4th at the latest. I think I will start posting here a little more. Now especially that I have been winning some tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites
Cappy37 0 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 the idea is there if you chase you do lose. but folding Kings is questionable. You need to be aware whats on board across the table and count the cards and color as well.most decisions need to be made by 3rd street, 4th at the latest. I think I will start posting here a little more. Now especially that I have been winning some tournaments.Lord knows the next strat post I see involving Stud Hi is going to be the first."Do I slowplay my rolled up trips or not?". "Am I really good at stud if I always have position on 4th street?""Does he have a flush?""Does he have a straight?""If I can't beat their board, should I fold?""Why don't my aces ever win?""Isn't Stud Hi the designated smoking break for Horse players?" Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Lord knows the next strat post I see involving Stud Hi is going to be the first."Do I slowplay my rolled up trips or not?". "Am I really good at stud if I always have position on 4th street?""Does he have a flush?""Does he have a straight?""If I can't beat their board, should I fold?""Why don't my aces ever win?""Isn't Stud Hi the designated smoking break for Horse players?" This is my favorite one!! Bathroom break, ftwStud Hi is best enjoyed in a live game setting, imo. It has been my experience that while live players are terribad at all non H games in HORSE, it amazes me that people think 2 baby pair is good in stud as it may be in LHE. Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 This is my favorite one!! Bathroom break, ftwStud Hi is best enjoyed in a live game setting, imo. It has been my experience that while live players are terribad at all non H games in HORSE, it amazes me that people think 2 baby pair is good in stud as it may be in LHE.qft"Do I slowplay my rolled up trips or not?". "Am I really good at stud if I always have position on 4th street?""Does he have a flush?""Does he have a straight?""If I can't beat their board, should I fold?""Why don't my aces ever win?""Isn't Stud Hi the designated smoking break for Horse players?"anyone who thinks they have a pair or set on 4 street needs to give there head a shake or there in for a rude awakening. Link to post Share on other sites
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