different advice from different forums. (plo8)

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

FCP,http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...pic.php?t=288422+2, http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...=&view=&sb=5&o=The choice is yours, my friends.

[Kendren 1]

WowSmash, go ahead and PM this guy your Party handle. Let him buddy list you if that's the advice he's looking for."Shove this flop"? You're drawing to NOTHING. No matter what you make, you're dodging cards the entire way. Nut low, probably quartered. heart or pair kills you. Let it go.But all the guy wanted to hear was his repot/push was right. That's it. And if the other guy had Ah3hJxJx, well, sorry. You just got destacked.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Smash, go ahead and PM this guy your Party handle. They can't afford to play at 2k level. If they can, they will get killed fast, Smash has won 40k alone from Wintermute, the expert at 2+2 forum.

[mk 11]

I don't care if Sklansky himself says Smash is wrong on this one. He's not.You're PRAYING for a coinflip.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Just to make it clear, Smash. I treasure everything you contributed at the plo8 forum. Sometime the best advice and truth is hard to take by the many "ego-players".

[KappaKid83 0]

Your avatar bothers me. Bah.JEFF

[Kendren 1]

 Smash, go ahead and PM this guy your Party handle. They can't afford to play at 2k level. If they can, they will get killed fast, Smash has won 40k alone from Wintermute, the expert at 2+2 forum.

I believe that. I just can't believe the people over there, especially "If this isn't your ideal flop, what is?" guy. Amazing.

Your avatar bothers me. Bah.

This, I have to agree with. She has 2 ass cracks?

[Swift_Psycho 1]

benwood wrote: "First, go back to the other site.Look up the guy who told you that this is an easy fold.Then tell him what a genius he is, & start playing with your new "buddy" whenever you get a chance."I dunno about you guys, but I think a heads-up match between dank and Smash in PLO8 would be very entertaining to watch.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

C'mon you guys, why didn't Smash's ugly midget avatar bother you guys but my beautiful 3-assed fair lady did? Not fair, because it was Smash's? I haven't shown her three tits yet....

[Kendren 1]

Nah, midgets are da shizzle. 2-3 assed ladies are just creepy, dude.EDIT: Must say, tho, the 2 asses on those new ladies could be nice. Good choice to replace.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

OK, is my new avatar better now? Happy?I don't really bother to post at 2+2 (I like them to play that way, EVERY TIME!), let's look at some stats first.Js 5s 3c Ad 0.253Ac 5d Ah 3h 0.747Js 5s 3c Ad 0.327Jc Ah Jh 3h 0.673Js 5s 3c Ad 0.4896c 5d Ah 3h 0.511Js 5s 3c Ad 0.406Jc Jh 5h 3h 0.594Js 5s 3c Ad 0.3654d 2d Ah 3h 0.635Js 5s 3c Ad 0.4453s 2s Ac Ah 0.555and much much more, more than you know.... For those 2+2 experts who argue to push, they forget one fundamental thing here (yeah they are good at calculating the odds at chasing HALF of the pot). If Hero is against a solid button player, Hero either wins/ties for a small pot, or he's risking his stack to be 1/4d or scooped. Button has much more control over the bet size here, he could elect to fold to lose a small pot here, but if he has a monster say A234ds with hearts, A3JJ... he is in for a nice treat.Winning a minimum while risking to lose a maximum is always welcomed at PLO8.

[garamond10pt 0]

I don't play much PLO8, how much does this change if you have position?If he pots it, do you fold/call/repot? (If repot, I assume you fold to another repot)

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

how much does this change if you have position? If he pots it, do you fold/call/repot? (If repot, I assume you fold to another repot)You need to restate your question in more details please. Who's he? Hero or the button.I assumed "he" means Button here.First, I won't even bother to bet on the flop because I wasn't last to act. Then if button potted it, I would fold because 1, I was OOP so I had little control over the pot size that I can win/lose. 2, I didn't have a huge edge on this flop so I don't want to risk my stack to win half of it or on a coin flip AT BEST against a solid player.I would rather wait for a better edged flop for 3/4ing/ scooping because a lot of players will defend half of their pots, and they are so good at calculating the odds of defending their lows only.Edited:Now if I've played against Button before and knew that he's a very very poor player, then I would check call his pot-sized bet and see what's developing on the turn.

[Kendren 1]

Jac, it took me three reads to agree with you. Your avatar makes me feel tingly. I like.but even if our positions are reversed, I probably fold to the pot bet. I'd rather do that than fold to a heart or pair turn, or God forbid, repot an Ax turn ($36) and have to call the $72 river when the heart or pair comes. This is why I play limit, makes chasing more palatable. I'm fishy, so I stay where it won't kill me all at once.Incidentally, if this WERE limit, I'm saying bet/call all the way to the river unless the heart/pair comes. That's how different FLO and PLO are.

[Chamonyx 0]

OK, is my new avatar better now? Happy?I don't really bother to post at 2+2 (I like them to play that way, EVERY TIME!), let's look at some stats first.Js 5s 3c Ad 0.253Ac 5d Ah 3h 0.747Js 5s 3c Ad 0.327Jc Ah Jh 3h 0.673Js 5s 3c Ad 0.4896c 5d Ah 3h 0.511Js 5s 3c Ad 0.406Jc Jh 5h 3h 0.594Js 5s 3c Ad 0.3654d 2d Ah 3h 0.635Js 5s 3c Ad 0.4453s 2s Ac Ah 0.555and much much more, more than you know.... For those 2+2 experts who argue to push, they forget one fundamental thing here (yeah they are good at calculating the odds at chasing HALF of the pot). If Hero is against a solid button player, Hero either wins/ties for a small pot, or he's risking his stack to be 1/4d or scooped. Button has much more control over the bet size here, he could elect to fold to lose a small pot here, but if he has a monster say A234ds with hearts, A3JJ... he is in for a nice treat.Winning a minimum while risking to lose a maximum is always welcomed at PLO8.

We know he has A3 with hearts. If one of his other 2 cards is a 2,4,5 or J then we are behind.FWIW, I would call his re-raise, buying an option to see the turn. I would pot any non heart that gives a low, check fold any heart except A (very surprising) or 3 which I would call down. I would chck call any non-heart high card.

[Smasharoo 0]

I don't play much PLO8, how much does this change if you have position? Yup.The 2+2 PLO8 forums are laregely a joke and largely why the games on Party continue to be so stunningly soft at all limits.good luck.

[Rocketwadster 0]

.50-$1 PLO8 Dank has A 3 5 J from the cutoff. I open limp, button calls, blinds call/check. Flop is 2 4 J . 2 checks, I bet the pot, $4, button re-pots to $16, blinds fold, back on me, Dank... Now, I'm no expert, and I honestly believe that there can be more than one right answer to many of the hands that are posted and commented on for this site, but that usually only pertains to limit games. PL and NL games are a totally different ball of wax when it comes to what the "proper" course of action is...I copied the hand over without the suits, and look how the situation changes when you dont have to worry about those pesky flushes...However, once you take those flush cards into consideration, it should be fairly easy to see what you should do here.You have to call $8 right now. If there was no more betting allowed (say everyone was all-in with your call of $8), the following occurs (BTW, if the math is wrong, who cares, just fix it and continue with where I am going from this):If you scoop, you win $24 by calling $8. (profit of $16 - ignore the fact that you put in $1 plus $4 before)If you get half, you win $12 by calling $8. (profit of $4)If you get 3/4, you win $18 by calling $8. (profit of $10)If you get 1/4, you win $6 by calling $8. (loss of $2)Now, you just have to figure out what the odds are of each of the above occuring, without knowing what your opponent's hand is...good luck with that.So, after you have figured out what the odds of each of the above are, go back to the real world and figure out what the implied profits/losses will be, since there still is money to be used on the turn and river. Rinse and repeat.I have no idea if any of that makes sense, so don't bother reading it (if you already did, tsk tsk tsk)To me, if the flop was a rainbow, easy call or push, but since it wasnt, AND we don't have the flush draw to go with our hand, seems like an easy fold.BTW - I don't think you should have bet that flop. 8)

[WonderfulSplash 0]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...=&view=&sb=5&o=

Wow.Im going to immediately stop reading the plo8 hands at 2+2. Not a single person thought it was correct to fold.

[Mendacious 0]

I'd love to see some evidence that Smash has won $40k off or Wintermute.

[ahosang 0]

No big deal. As long as you don't call, you're doing OK, though a fold is preferred against a tighter player or maybe with no read. Against typical bad players, the 2+2 line is OK.The more 2 groups argue about something, the less an issue it is.Also - to everybody, I'd worry more about how much you are winning, rather than Smasharoo or anybody else...

[Smasharoo 0]

I'd love to see some evidence that Smash has won $40k off or Wintermute.Sure, let me pull out extensive records of games we've played, complete with hand histories. Wait, that still wouldn't prove anything. Let me contact him and the two of us will film a documentary detailing every hand history either one of us has of playing each other in front of a notary and the Pope, then mail you a DVD of it so that someone I've never heard of with one post can be satisfied as to the veracity of my claim.Since I'm not going to do that you bassically have two choices:One, you can take my word for it.Alternately you can believe that I'm a 12 year old posting from a home for the mentally insane who's never actually played a hand and just has a rich fantasy life.I really don't give a fuck either way.good luck.

[Mendacious 0]

Touchy touchy Smasho. Your claim seems more than a little preposterous, especially since it wasn't that long ago that Party didn't even have the $600-$2000 tables. It is actually quite easy to post a screenshot of your winnings against a player head to head from PTO. How many hands do you have with Wintermute? What is his alias? Without a little more information your claim completely lacks credibility. Regardless of what you think of the number of my posts, you obviously took the time to write your evasive response. For the record, Wintermute disputes your claim and says that NO ONE in his database has won more than 6K from him. I believe him because I know him, and because his claim, unlike yours is reasonable. Whatever you may think of him as a player, Wintermute posts honestly (the good and the bad) and backs up what he says.For the honor of your forum, you ought to back up what claim about players from another forum. You've been served.

[GooperMC 0]

I am one of the 2+2ers that followed the link over here, in fact I am the

"If this isn't your ideal flop, what is?"

guy. For the record I didn’t say this was the ideal flop I said:

This flop is close to as good as it gets.

which is correct.First let me say that I am glad I found this site, I am always interested in O8 discussion.Next let me say that both answers are correct. In a very tight high level game where all of your opponents are good players folding may be correct. However at the .5/1 level the players are so bad that IMHO this is an easy push. I think that assuming hero’s opponent has 4 perfect cards like A3JJ or AA35 is looking for MOB. At these levels hero’s opponent has a naked A3, or bottom 2, or a naked AA, much more often then A3JJ. I don't think you guys are taking into account how bad the players are at this level.Yes there are hands that beat hero but there are also hands that Hero beats. I think that the opponent has hands that hero beats more often then hands that beat hero so pushing is +EV. This is especially true if you take into account the amount of money that is already in the pot. Just stating that there are hands that beat hero isn't enough. You need to make an argument that, taking pot odds into consideration, those hands are so much more likely then the hands that hero beats that pushing will be -EV.If I was told that the opponent was a nut peddler then I would change my mind, but against the average .5/1 player I would push.

[Kendren 1]

Welcome, Gooper.Sorry I misquoted you. Wasn't my intention, just to highlight the opposite opinion from mine that existed over there. Hope to hear from you more.EDIT: Oh, and Mendacious... honor of your forum? Do you play D&D often? Jeez. Dueling pistols at high noon. Good day to you, Sir.

[KDawgCometh 2]

The 2+2 PLO8 forums are laregely a joke

a truer statement hasn't been uttered. I post a lot at 2+2, but people seem to think that all of 2+2 is awesome, its not. THe PLO section is good when good posters post(mainly acesover), but the MHS NL section, most of the gujys just always defer to El D, ThaBadGuy, or Bruiser, the stud forum is good, but its weird, and the MTT section isn't what it used to be. Really the best forums are the HoldEm forums(except for micros, that forum blows). I'm not really adding anything here, I just wanted to highlight what smash said and to remind people that 2+2 isn't always a be all end all in all of its sections