466 replies to this topic

[grocery_mony]

from earilerPokerStars Game #41467592123: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/20 19:50:57 PT [2010/03/20 22:50:57 ET]Table 'Strobel III' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: kingsofcards ($21695 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($59370 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($57673 in chips) Seat 5: molswi47 ($20000 in chips) Seat 6: MrSweets28 ($30190 in chips) MrSweets28: posts small blind $100kingsofcards: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***ZeeJustin: folds KidPoker: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds MrSweets28: raises $1500 to $2100kingsofcards: folds KidPoker: raises $3700 to $5800MrSweets28: raises $6400 to $12200KidPoker: folds Uncalled bet ($6400) returned to MrSweets28MrSweets28 collected $11800 from potMrSweets28: shows [2s 7d] (high card Seven)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $11800 | Rake $0 Seat 1: kingsofcards (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: KidPoker folded before FlopSeat 5: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: MrSweets28 (small blind) collected ($11800)

[DM_FLOPPEDIT]

DanielNegreanu, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 7:43 PM, said:

I have no idea what to do here but folding seemed right to me, I dunno:PokerStars Game #41469048177: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/20 20:38:28 PT [2010/03/20 23:38:28 ET]Table 'Strobel III' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: kingsofcards ($33765 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($25386 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($55443 in chips) Seat 5: molswi47 ($20000 in chips) kingsofcards: posts small blind $100ZeeJustin: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to KidPoker [Ad Tc]KidPoker: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds kingsofcards: folds ZeeJustin: raises $1500 to $2100KidPoker: calls $1500*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d 9s]ZeeJustin: bets $2600KidPoker: calls $2600*** TURN *** [Ts 2d 9s] [8h]ZeeJustin: bets $6800KidPoker said, "this is a ******ed fold too"KidPoker said, "you cant say re tard ed?"KidPoker: folds Uncalled bet ($6800) returned to ZeeJustinZeeJustin collected $9495 from potZeeJustin: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $9500 | Rake $5 Board [Ts 2d 9s 8h]Seat 1: kingsofcards (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin (big blind) collected ($9495)Seat 4: KidPoker folded on the TurnSeat 5: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I think you made a good fold I guess if you think your good on turn and going to call shoving is always better just not sure what pays us off here maybe ksqs

[GeneralGeeWhiz]

DanielNegreanu, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 8:43 PM, said:

I have no idea what to do here but folding seemed right to me, I dunno:PokerStars Game #41469048177: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/20 20:38:28 PT [2010/03/20 23:38:28 ET]Table 'Strobel III' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: kingsofcards ($33765 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($25386 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($55443 in chips) Seat 5: molswi47 ($20000 in chips) kingsofcards: posts small blind $100ZeeJustin: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to KidPoker [Ad Tc]KidPoker: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds kingsofcards: folds ZeeJustin: raises $1500 to $2100KidPoker: calls $1500*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d 9s]ZeeJustin: bets $2600KidPoker: calls $2600*** TURN *** [Ts 2d 9s] [8h]ZeeJustin: bets $6800KidPoker said, "this is a ******ed fold too"KidPoker said, "you cant say re tard ed?"KidPoker: folds Uncalled bet ($6800) returned to ZeeJustinZeeJustin collected $9495 from potZeeJustin: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $9500 | Rake $5 Board [Ts 2d 9s 8h]Seat 1: kingsofcards (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin (big blind) collected ($9495)Seat 4: KidPoker folded on the TurnSeat 5: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Lol at the bolded.

[GeneralGeeWhiz]

DanielNegreanu, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 8:43 PM, said:

I have no idea what to do here but folding seemed right to me, I dunno:PokerStars Game #41469048177: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/20 20:38:28 PT [2010/03/20 23:38:28 ET]Table 'Strobel III' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: kingsofcards ($33765 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($25386 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($55443 in chips) Seat 5: molswi47 ($20000 in chips) kingsofcards: posts small blind $100ZeeJustin: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to KidPoker [Ad Tc]KidPoker: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds kingsofcards: folds ZeeJustin: raises $1500 to $2100KidPoker: calls $1500*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d 9s]ZeeJustin: bets $2600KidPoker: calls $2600*** TURN *** [Ts 2d 9s] [8h]ZeeJustin: bets $6800KidPoker said, "this is a ******ed fold too"KidPoker said, "you cant say re tard ed?"KidPoker: folds Uncalled bet ($6800) returned to ZeeJustinZeeJustin collected $9495 from potZeeJustin: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $9500 | Rake $5 Board [Ts 2d 9s 8h]Seat 1: kingsofcards (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin (big blind) collected ($9495)Seat 4: KidPoker folded on the TurnSeat 5: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

77 or QQ

[Snamuh]

DanielNegreanu, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 11:43 PM, said:

I have no idea what to do here but folding seemed right to me, I dunno:PokerStars Game #41469048177: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/20 20:38:28 PT [2010/03/20 23:38:28 ET]Table 'Strobel III' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: kingsofcards ($33765 in chips) Seat 3: ZeeJustin ($25386 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($55443 in chips) Seat 5: molswi47 ($20000 in chips) kingsofcards: posts small blind $100ZeeJustin: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to KidPoker [Ad Tc]KidPoker: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds kingsofcards: folds ZeeJustin: raises $1500 to $2100KidPoker: calls $1500*** FLOP *** [Ts 2d 9s]ZeeJustin: bets $2600KidPoker: calls $2600*** TURN *** [Ts 2d 9s] [8h]ZeeJustin: bets $6800KidPoker said, "this is a ******ed fold too"KidPoker said, "you cant say re tard ed?"KidPoker: folds Uncalled bet ($6800) returned to ZeeJustinZeeJustin collected $9495 from potZeeJustin: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $9500 | Rake $5 Board [Ts 2d 9s 8h]Seat 1: kingsofcards (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: ZeeJustin (big blind) collected ($9495)Seat 4: KidPoker folded on the TurnSeat 5: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Fold preflop. Also, that looks to be a very tough table - one of the tougher NLHE tables you'll find on the internet today.

[FCP Bob]

Snamuh, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 6:24 AM, said:

Fold preflop. Also, that looks to be a very tough table - one of the tougher NLHE tables you'll find on the internet today.

I don't think that Daniel minds me saying that he doesn't mind the table being tough since maybe his main purpose in playing these games is to gain experience and to improve on his NL Holdem cash game. Usually every other player at the table is a winning 25/50 regular at least.Of course it makes it easier when you're winning and Daniel won another $21K or so last night and has been the biggest winner at 100/200 at Stars this month so far.

[DanielNegreanu]

Snamuh, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 3:24 AM, said:

Fold preflop. Also, that looks to be a very tough table - one of the tougher NLHE tables you'll find on the internet today.

No thanks. Not a big fan of folding in position.

[tskillz187]

FCP Bob, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 6:21 AM, said:

I don't think that Daniel minds me saying that he doesn't mind the table being tough since maybe his main purpose in playing these games is to gain experience and to improve on his NL Holdem cash game. Usually every other player at the table is a winning 25/50 regular at least.Of course it makes it easier when you're winning and Daniel won another $21K or so last night and has been the biggest winner at 100/200 at Stars this month so far.

Is it more than the 1200 hands he's played so far? Seems like the game will likely run whenever DN wants it to, but I don't know how to filter PTR well or anything, so it only shows til March 5th.

DanielNegreanu, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 7:26 AM, said:

No thanks. Not a big fan of folding in position.

I'm not really sure what you want to do with the hand, then. If you think he's 3betting wide and want to play ATo as a bluff catcher then you should probably commit to catching bluffs and not folding to a second barrel. I definitely don't know the thought process behind a 100/200 game with some sickos, but I would think that he's double barreling here a lot. That card gives him a lot of OE straight draws, he flopped okay for gutshots/OE draws and he probably can clear out your 33-77 type hands a lot with a 2nd barrel. I think you're still ahead of a lot of bluffs (if ZJ 3 bets aggro, which he probably does) and you're also ahead of a lot of hands he could be value betting here.Also what do you think his 3b range consists of? I would think JQ would flat more than 3bet, he has a lot of guttys/high card hands/pair+ straight draw hands/2pr/straights/overpairs. I think the last 3 make the smallest part of his range, and if people knew you were throwing away tptk here they'd have a field day running you over. I guess I just think folding that there is way too exploitable and if I were going to make that fold I'd be keeping it to myself so they weren't aware of just how tight I'm calling off.

[tskillz187]

DM_FLOPPEDIT, on Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 11:00 PM, said:

I think you made a good fold I guess if you think your good on turn and going to call shoving is always better just not sure what pays us off here maybe ksqs

And no. If you think you're good you're ahead of mostly bluffs so you call and let him fire his 3rd barrel. Shoving is pretty bad. ZJ sized up betting so the river bet is going in, it's like 14k into 25k, let him shove the river if you are going to call turn, then call river imo.

[FCP Bob]

tskillz187, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 10:04 AM, said:

Is it more than the 1200 hands he's played so far? Seems like the game will likely run whenever DN wants it to, but I don't know how to filter PTR well or anything, so it only shows til March 5th.

I think he's played around 1600 hands which is of course not a lot and proves nothing but still better to be winning than losing.The game doesn't really go without Daniel starting it and it usually breaks when he leaves. It's actually a great situation for Daniel to be in for improving on his game. He knows that he can get a game pretty much anytime he wants.

[Vtlaxer09]

DanielNegreanu, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 7:26 AM, said:

No thanks. Not a big fan of folding in position.

lol... its not like you're lighting money on fire with that call or anything.o wait.

[Snamuh]

FCP Bob, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 7:21 AM, said:

I don't think that Daniel minds me saying that he doesn't mind the table being tough since maybe his main purpose in playing these games is to gain experience and to improve on his NL Holdem cash game. Usually every other player at the table is a winning 25/50 regular at least.Of course it makes it easier when you're winning and Daniel won another $21K or so last night and has been the biggest winner at 100/200 at Stars this month so far.

Yeah this is a completely fine response. It's definitely good to challenge yourself.

DanielNegreanu, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 8:26 AM, said:

No thanks. Not a big fan of folding in position.

I mean yeah, in a really aggressive 4 handed game, you want to be defending a lot wider, but ATo is just such a poor hand. If you really feel that his range is wide enough that you can profitably defend ATo, I don't see how you aren't calling or jamming turn there. He's likely barrelling that turn with just about any value hand, spades, Jx, maybe something like KQ, and a few pair plus straight draw hands. I mean this scenario kind of illustrates why defending a hand like ATo (even having position) ends up being extremely marginal. Also, I'd take into account who you are playing against - playing back at top players with marginal hands is really going to be lighting money on fire in the long run. If he's 3betting very wide, I like 4bet bluffing preflop to like 4400 in this spot - basically just turning the better hands I'd otherwise fold into a 4bet bluff.

[Naismith]

Snamuh, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 3:15 PM, said:

I mean yeah, in a really aggressive 4 handed game, you want to be defending a lot wider

What range of hands would you be defending with?

[Snamuh]

Naismith, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 3:28 PM, said:

What range of hands would you be defending with?

It depends on how wide their ranges are, but I'd rather be defending like AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ, probably like 87s+ and some suited gappers like QTs, J9s. I'd probably flat like KK/AA, but 4bet like AQ/AK as well as a range of pocket pairs that would likely be something like 66-QQ with the bottom end of the cutoff varying based on how wide they're 3betting. My decision to defend wider would also depend on how confident I am in my postflop abilities vs a given opponent - vs a guy like ZeeJustin that is going to be making my life hell so often, I might nit up a bit. I know this is going to sound blasphemous, but I think DN is going to overrate his postflop abilities (especially only 125 BBs deep) vs some of the best NLHE players around.

[tskillz187]

FCP Bob, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 12:01 PM, said:

I think he's played around 1600 hands which is of course not a lot and proves nothing but still better to be winning than losing.The game doesn't really go without Daniel starting it and it usually breaks when he leaves. It's actually a great situation for Daniel to be in for improving on his game. He knows that he can get a game pretty much anytime he wants.

Definitely better to be winning than losing. I mean I'm sure Daniel is aware that he is viewed as the fish as you are pointing out. I guess my thinking is, that if he wanted to challenge himself to improve he could sit at small-mid stakes and still find a challenge for probably much cheaper. He'd also probably learn quicker as well, or at least find out what level he was at. Like if he sat at 2-4/5-10nl I'd think he'd be surprised to find out that people would still think he was the fish (games would def build around him, etc. Not saying he would be like a prime fish, I think he'd be small loser/breakeven/small winner). Games would start, only he'd have the benefit of also getting in games with some soft spots. I don't have enough money to prop bet Daniel, but I'd be really surprised if Daniel played a 30k hand month of 2-4/5-10nl on Stars and came out significantly ahead (4bb/100 or so). That's not intended to be a huge knock on him, it's meant to say how much tougher the games are today and how many people play NLHE really solid. I think if he were serious about addressing his leaks he would start there and move up as he figured out he was above that learning curve. IMO he's skipping a lot of steps in the learning process by jumping in the highest games. I think simple retorts like "Not folding, I'm in position" to midstakes winners like Snamuh kind of point out that misjudgment in thought process.I don't know his motivation for playing high stakes and he can play however high he pleases, but I think he's misguided if he thinks his skill is on par for those games or if he thinks that is the best way to improve. Maybe if he also hired a coach and played those huge games he could advance rapidly, and who knows he might be doing that.

[FCP Bob]

tskillz187, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 7:17 PM, said:

I don't know his motivation for playing high stakes and he can play however high he pleases, but I think he's misguided if he thinks his skill is on par for those games or if he thinks that is the best way to improve. Maybe if he also hired a coach and played those huge games he could advance rapidly, and who knows he might be doing that.

Daniel's motivation to play is because he enjoys playing the game and likes the challenge. He won't get that some enjoyment from playing in a 5/10 game and taking the approach that you're suggesting. I don't think that Daniel thinks he can't learn from playing the lower limits but he thinks he'll learn more from the higher limits while it'll also interest and challenge him more.Daniel is having a lot of fun playing poker and has been for quite a while. He played some live Bobby's Room sessions late last year when he had time and did very well in the big mixed games he was playing. While 100/200 NL is high stakes it's still quite a bit smaller than what Daniel would be willing to play in a mixed game.There is only a limited amount of time that he has to play and he's going to do things that will maintain his interest the most in that time while also filling the goal of improving his NL cash game.

[DanielNegreanu]

tskillz187, on Sunday, March 21st, 2010, 4:17 PM, said:

Definitely better to be winning than losing. I mean I'm sure Daniel is aware that he is viewed as the fish as you are pointing out. I guess my thinking is, that if he wanted to challenge himself to improve he could sit at small-mid stakes and still find a challenge for probably much cheaper. He'd also probably learn quicker as well, or at least find out what level he was at. Like if he sat at 2-4/5-10nl I'd think he'd be surprised to find out that people would still think he was the fish (games would def build around him, etc. Not saying he would be like a prime fish, I think he'd be small loser/breakeven/small winner). Games would start, only he'd have the benefit of also getting in games with some soft spots. I don't have enough money to prop bet Daniel, but I'd be really surprised if Daniel played a 30k hand month of 2-4/5-10nl on Stars and came out significantly ahead (4bb/100 or so). That's not intended to be a huge knock on him, it's meant to say how much tougher the games are today and how many people play NLHE really solid. I think if he were serious about addressing his leaks he would start there and move up as he figured out he was above that learning curve. IMO he's skipping a lot of steps in the learning process by jumping in the highest games. I think simple retorts like "Not folding, I'm in position" to midstakes winners like Snamuh kind of point out that misjudgment in thought process.I don't know his motivation for playing high stakes and he can play however high he pleases, but I think he's misguided if he thinks his skill is on par for those games or if he thinks that is the best way to improve. Maybe if he also hired a coach and played those huge games he could advance rapidly, and who knows he might be doing that.

Well you are definitely wrong about one thing and that's the best approach to get better in terms of the learning curve. If you can afford it, playing against the very best players is the best approach.

[FCP Bob]

Daniel is playing another early session from Austria right now.

[FCP Bob]

Daniel having a wee bit of good fortune.PokerStars Game #41536966860: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/22 11:10:53 ETTable 'Dresda V' 6-max Seat #2 is the buttonSeat 1: cts687 ($31380 in chips) Seat 2: molswi47 ($22990 in chips) Seat 3: tjbentham ($9800 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($94213 in chips) Seat 5: Sleyde ($20895 in chips) tjbentham: posts small blind $100KidPoker: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***Sleyde: folds KidPoker said, "lol"cts687: raises $400 to $600molswi47: folds tjbentham said, "minbuy from the blinds obv"tjbentham: folds KidPoker: raises $1400 to $2000Sleyde said, ")"cts687: calls $1400*** FLOP *** [8d Qd Ac]Sleyde said, "kidpoker makes us all stuck "KidPoker: bets $2400KidPoker said, "running good lately"cts687: calls $2400*** TURN *** [8d Qd Ac] [4s]KidPoker: bets $6200cts687: calls $6200*** RIVER *** [8d Qd Ac 4s] [4c]KidPoker: bets $55200cts687: calls $20780 and is all-inUncalled bet ($34420) returned to KidPoker*** SHOW DOWN ***KidPoker: shows [Ah Qc] (two pair, Aces and Queens)cts687: shows [Ad 2d] (two pair, Aces and Fours)KidPoker collected $62855 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $62860 | Rake $5 Board [8d Qd Ac 4s 4c]Seat 1: cts687 showed [Ad 2d] and lost with two pair, Aces and FoursSeat 2: molswi47 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: tjbentham (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 4: KidPoker (big blind) showed [Ah Qc] and won ($62855) with two pair, Aces and Queens

[FCP Bob]

PokerStars Game #41535534009: Hold'em No Limit ($100/$200 USD) - 2010/03/22 10:29:44 ETTable 'Dresda V' 6-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: cts687 ($21262 in chips) Seat 2: molswi47 ($31391 in chips) Seat 4: KidPoker ($47400 in chips) Seat 5: Sleyde ($20600 in chips) cts687: posts small blind $100molswi47: posts big blind $200*** HOLE CARDS ***KidPoker: raises $400 to $600Sleyde: folds cts687: raises $1600 to $2200molswi47: folds KidPoker: calls $1600*** FLOP *** [6h Jd 4h]cts687: checks KidPoker: bets $2200cts687: calls $2200*** TURN *** [6h Jd 4h] [2d]cts687: checks KidPoker: bets $5600cts687: raises $11262 to $16862 and is all-inKidPoker: calls $11262*** RIVER *** [6h Jd 4h 2d] [3c]*** SHOW DOWN ***cts687: shows [9s 9c] (a pair of Nines)KidPoker: shows [4s 4c] (three of a kind, Fours)KidPoker collected $42719 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $42724 | Rake $5 Board [6h Jd 4h 2d 3c]Seat 1: cts687 (small blind) showed [9s 9c] and lost with a pair of NinesSeat 2: molswi47 (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 4: KidPoker showed [4s 4c] and won ($42719) with three of a kind, FoursSeat 5: Sleyde (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)