cwik 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Just sat down so no reads/statsFull Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $1/$26 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $219.95Hero: $194CO: $65.45Button: $135.10SB: $303.45BB: $174Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with UTG raises to $7, Hero raises to $24, 2 folds, SB calls, 2 folds.Flop: :D ($57, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB calls.Turn: ($133, 2 players)SB bets $40, Hero ??? Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 i say call. also, i'm totally gonna fold a non-queen river if he makes a reasonable bet. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 pretty tough spot with the donk bet. i love preflop and the size of your flop bet. i play AA and a set like this sometimes if i am villian. i would say its read dependent. its either a blocker for AJ or a monster. i don't think he calls preflop with AJ. getting > 5:1 makes it seem like a bleeder to me i probably let it go but I'm sure calling and reevaluating river is fine.edit: now that i see our remaining stack i can fold a bid easier Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 i say call. also, i'm totally gonna fold a non-queen river if he makes a reasonable bet. FAILThis looks like a blocker bet more than a setup bet. Honestly though, he bets less than a third of the pot why are we reacting like an overpair is no good in six max on a rainbow board with not completed straights out there?Call this down, and call down any non-A non-J river. Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 This looks like a blocker bet more than a setup bet. Honestly though, he bets less than a third of the pot why are we reacting like an overpair is no good in six max on a rainbow board with not completed straights out there?Call this down, and call down any non-A non-J river.I agree with this...if anything, I maybe raise the turn to see if he really has anything he feels like chasing. His bet seems weak to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 We have ~$130 left, wtf are you raising to? Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 We have ~$130 left, wtf are you raising to?if he calls, that leaves Hero with only $92 and SB had us covered from the beginning. I didn't do the math before (donkey move on my part) but if I was going to raise, why not just push all-in?the way I am seeing this is that I am not folding QQ - so that means calling or raising and if I call, I am pretty much pot committed (~2/3 of Hero's stack is in the pot). If I can take down the pot now because villain doesn't hold AA, KK, or a set, I am willing to take that chance. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 This looks like a blocker bet more than a setup bet. Honestly though, he bets less than a third of the pot why are we reacting like an overpair is no good in six max on a rainbow board with not completed straights out there?Call this down, and call down any non-A non-J river. FAILi think the only blocker bet is AJ which is limited based on pf action and if we call the $40 the rest of our stack is going in on the river everytime. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 if he calls, that leaves Hero with only $92 and SB had us covered from the beginning. I didn't do the math before (donkey move on my part) but if I was going to raise, why not just push all-in?the way I am seeing this is that I am not folding QQ - so that means calling or raising and if I call, I am pretty much pot committed (~2/3 of Hero's stack is in the pot). If I can take down the pot now because villain doesn't hold AA, KK, or a set, I am willing to take that chance.But if you're going to fold worse hands, and only get called by KK/AA, then shoving is clearly bad.... Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 But if you're going to fold worse hands, and only get called by KK/AA, then shoving is clearly bad....So do what then? Call the Turn, fold the river to a bet? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 So do what then? Call the Turn, fold the river to a bet?Prolly call/call, let him v-bet a worse hand, or bluff off, or whatever.I'm sure some guys you can fold turn, or at worst river vs, but I dunno. Link to post Share on other sites
Andromeda 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Prolly call/call, let him v-bet a worse hand, or bluff off, or whatever.I'm sure some guys you can fold turn, or at worst river vs, but I dunno.specifically to this hand, is this because of the lack of read/knowledge of the villain? Link to post Share on other sites
Next3124 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 In this case. I think you should raise him. With QQ. Guy might had AJ or maybe even 88 or 10-10. He might think you had AK AQ and he check the flop. But normally if you had JJ you would have checked the flop. So. I guess Hero Should be raising him. It sound like a steal or maybe he got a hand but not a big one. Cause if he had your overpair beaten he would have tryed a check-raise on turn . Because Hero bet on flop. So the best option here would be to raise him!" Link to post Share on other sites
StPong 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I think this is 88 - JJ. KK and AA are possible, but with a re-raise in front of him pf I don't see why the villain wouldn't push the action and expect to get called.My vote is call, and like Nuts said, call any non-J, non-A river. I don't like a raise because you're only getting called by hands that beat you since there's no reasonable draw. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Call. call bet on river barring J and if he checks, check behind due to lack of reads. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Turn: ($133, 2 players)SB bets $40, Hero ???It's jacks. It played just like jacks. You're drawing to a Q. His turn bet is designed to get you committed to the pot. Fold. And if it's not jacks, it's surely overs. Fold. Link to post Share on other sites
StPong 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 It's jacks. It played just like jacks. You're drawing to a Q. His turn bet is designed to get you committed to the pot. Fold. And if it's not jacks, it's surely overs. Fold.By the same token, it could be TT seeing if Hero will commit himself to the pot or fold. I'm really not sure about this hand...I think 88 through JJ could all play this way. Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 lol lol lolsome of you guys would be so exploitable. why are you guys so scared? this is a blocking bet so often. call the turn and most rivers if bet, and bet the river if checked to. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 edit: now that i see our remaining stack i can fold a bid easierDon't even attempt to fail me. This is a horrific fold. ZOMG!!! Less than a third of the pot!!!! BETTAR FOLD ME OVERPAIR ON DA SAFAST BOARD EVAR AT 6 MAX!Edit: The amount of people wanting to make a hero fold here makes me want to vomit. Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Don't even attempt to fail me. This is a horrific fold. ZOMG!!! Less than a third of the pot!!!! BETTAR FOLD ME OVERPAIR ON DA SAFAST BOARD EVAR AT 6 MAX!lol Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 lol lol lolsome of you guys would be so exploitable. why are you guys so scared? this is a blocking bet so often. call the turn and most rivers if bet, and bet the river if checked to.What is the range of hands he is making a blocking bet with on this board? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 What is the range of hands he is making a blocking bet with on this board?Any PP and any piece of the board. This happens often with weak hands that want to play past the flop c-bet, especially in a short handed game. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Any PP and any piece of the board. This happens often with weak hands that want to play past the flop c-bet, especially in a short handed game.I am not as experienced as anybody who plays at these stakes but will players at this level call OOP with a hand like AJ with this pf action at these stakes? Are they even going to take a flop with a hand like 88, TT with a UTG raise and reraise in front of them?It definitely seems fishy, but the pot is offering 4:1 so you only have to win 20% of the time for this call to be acceptable. But if you are calling what are you doing on the river?Hero has around 45% of his stack in after this call. Doesn't that make him committed to calling a riverbet? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I am not as experienced as anybody who plays at these stakes but will players at this level call OOP with a hand like AJ with this pf action at these stakes? Are they even going to take a flop with a hand like 88, TT with a UTG raise and reraise in front of them?It definitely seems fishy, but the pot is offering 4:1 so you only have to win 20% of the time for this call to be acceptable. But if you are calling what are you doing on the river?Hero has around 45% of his stack in after this call. Doesn't that make him committed to calling a riverbet?No, we're not committed on the river. If a bad card falls, or he shoves and we think we're beat, we can still get away from this. But folding to this turn bet is absolutely absurd to the point where you seriously are checking for monsters under your bed before you sleep.Also, this is six max. That's what makes the huge difference, not the stakes. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 No, we're not committed on the river. If a bad card falls, or he shoves and we think we're beat, we can still get away from this. But folding to this turn bet is absolutely absurd to the point where you seriously are checking for monsters under your bed before you sleep.Also, this is six max. That's what makes the huge difference, not the stakes.Well obviously $1/$2 is a little different to the $.02/$.05 I play at lol. But at 6 max people's general ranges are much wider? So hands like AJ etc would play here? Link to post Share on other sites
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