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value betting when a scare card comes (limit he)


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#1 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:04 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is MP2 with T:heart:, J:diamond:. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.Flop: (7.50 SB) T:club:, 3:club:, 8:heart: (3 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, UTG+1 calls.Turn: (4.75 BB) 9:diamond: (2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.River: (6.75 BB) J:heart: (2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, ...this is standard, right?aseem
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#2 Guest_XXEddie_*

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:08 PM

im checking, I feel im only getting called my a worser hand if he has a worse 2 pair

#3 choic

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:14 PM

Check!You'll feel stupid after getting checked raised, and wonder "why the hell did I do that"If you bet, you probably won't get a call anyways. You're beat if you do.

#4 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:16 PM

just to play the devil's advocate, i'll mention that the game is a little on the loose/passive side, but people aren't calling with absolutely nothing on each street, either.how does this change things, if at all?aseem
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#5 KDawgCometh

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:19 PM

bet/call. two pair has showdown value
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#6 jayboogie

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:26 PM

You kind of have to notice this player's tendencies. Some players will always bet their 1 card straight or flush when they hit it on the river, this is probably one of the things you should try and pay attention to, because it will save you a lot of bets later on.There are other players who love to check-raise in these situations when they make their hand. I'd bet here against a weak calling station and check against a tougher player who I know is not paying me off with weaker hands.

#7 wrto4556

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:51 PM

if you're going to call a raise, its better to check.bet/fold is probably your best option. He checked it to you so you should bet your two pair for value. power of position, i guess.if he check/raises, i think its a pretty easy fold.
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#8 Mattnxtc

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:01 PM

though he probably just missed his draw...its still just a better check...He could bluff at you and its still not a call you want to have to make
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#9 wrto4556

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:07 PM

Mattnxtc said:

though he probably just missed his draw...its still just a better check...He could bluff at you and its still not a call you want to have to make
what?J8 calls, J9 calls, a lone 8 or 9 calls, a T calls...lots of hands call.
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#10 steve7stud

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:08 PM

Okay, this is a definite bet on the river. One thing that scares me about lower limits, is the possibility of people getting into bad habits. I would bet the river if I was playing 1-2 or 200-400. If I get check raised, I'm STILL calling in most cases. Especially at higher limits. Believe it or not, in a mdeium to semi-hi limit game. People will slow play Aces and Kings to the river. They will also check raise trying to represent a hand. The opponent could also check raise with Ace Jack or King Jack. Anyway you slice it, I'm betting the river. And unless I know the player will NOT be bluffing for sure, I'm calling regardless of what happens after the bet.

#11 Mattnxtc

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:12 PM

anybody playin a jack technically missed their open ended on the river. Its just my opinion on it...usually when somebody check calls they are drawing to something and with the 2 clubs on the board thats what i would put him on...
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#12 jayboogie

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:18 PM

If I bet the river, I'm definitely calling the raise. I do think this is a river bet though the more I think about it, because weaker hands are calling you here.

#13 wrto4556

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:26 PM

i dont think calling the river is very good against a typical donky
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#14 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:32 PM

wrto4556 said:

i dont think calling the river is very good against a typical donky
in what sense?he was a mild version of a calling station. pretty loose, pretty passive. he didn't call down with nothing, though...aseem
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#15 wrto4556

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:34 PM

what do you see him check/raising with that we beat?
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#16 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:49 PM

wrto4556 said:

what do you see him check/raising with that we beat?
oh, i misread your post. i thought it said "i don't think _betting_ the river ..."i think if i bet and he raised, i would fold this with a more solid read that he was passive. i don't mind calling his raise just to see his cards at all, honestly. just one bet for a good amount of information about how he plays any hand that contains a Q or a 7 here.aseem
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#17 akishore

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 10:12 PM

ok, SO...i think this is a value bet against loose/passive players. there aren't many hands he's calling that flop with that have a Q or 7 in them.i'm damn sure i'll get a call from any pair and two pair.if he checkraises, i would fold if i was confident he wouldn't do it with anything less than a straight, but i can't be sure he's not dumb and wouldn't checkraise here with J-8 for a rivered lower two pair or something.so, i think the best line is to bet/call.what does everyone think?i think the most important thing is that i DO get called by plenty of worse hands.aseem
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#18 Don Giovanni

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 10:17 PM

i would bet it. mabey fold if he check raises but mabey call also. you might get called by a single pair there on the river.

#19 MrNiceGuy

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 10:37 PM

wrto4556 said:

what do you see him check/raising with that we beat?
Except that I don't see him check/raising with anything that beats us either.... The river was an overcard to the board and put an OESD out there, so if he has a Q in his hand (QK-Q8 are all possible), it seems like a bad spot to go for a check/raise, since there a good chance we'll check behind. I think he usually just bets out with a Q. And I imagine he just bets out with a 7; I can't believe he'd c/r a 7.Even fish bluff-raise once in a while - I think bet/call is probably the best line here.
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