20 replies to this topic

[Fish-o-rama]

How many players do you think use software programs like PT, and how many do you think use heads-up displays on them? How much does this change by level? Would you expect it to be more or less common at higher stakes, and do you think someone who didn't use them would be at a serious disadvantage at some levels?

[rawkodd]

about 75%

[rawkodd]

84% of all statistics are made up on the spot

[David_Nicoson]

All the players who have poker tracker tracker already know the answer to this question.

[Czech Razor]

Fish-o-rama, on Tuesday, May 8th, 2007, 7:48 PM, said:

How many players do you think use software programs like PT, and how many do you think use heads-up displays on them? How much does this change by level? Would you expect it to be more or less common at higher stakes, and do you think someone who didn't use them would be at a serious disadvantage at some levels?

More common at mid-stakes, and less common at the highest stakes because the player pool is so small.I don't think that someone would be at a serious disadvantage if they were not using one. You'd lose some edge over the table if the rest of the players were using PT, but it also depends on how many hands those people have stored with the people they're up against. If they only have 100 hands or so, they really have no edge at all. If they have 10,000 hands ... you get the idea.

[David_Nicoson]

Fish-o-rama, on Tuesday, May 8th, 2007, 7:48 PM, said:

How many players do you think use software programs like PT, and how many do you think use heads-up displays on them? How much does this change by level? Would you expect it to be more or less common at higher stakes, and do you think someone who didn't use them would be at a serious disadvantage at some levels?

OK, to add to the one serious answer so far, unless you're way out of the norm the other players probably aren't taking advantage of you. They are better prepared to exploit people who have unusual tendencies. You're not getting your full share of that money.

[ajs510]

rawkodd, on Tuesday, May 8th, 2007, 7:58 PM, said:

84% of all statistics are made up on the spot

Eight percent? There was an 8% chance that the gun would go off?WHO TAUGHT YOU MATH???That movie gets funnier every time I see it.

[four10 lkc]

for those who have used it, does it really help that much?

[finztotheleft]

four10 lkc, on Wednesday, May 9th, 2007, 12:14 AM, said:

for those who have used it, does it really help that much?

For me, God yes !I had no idea how loose and passive I was until seeing my stats. It's also a tremendous help to me when multitabling. I usually play 2 to 3 tables while surfing the net and watching tv (yup...ADD). If I've been raised by someone who is extremely passive per their PT stats, my top pair doesn't look so good. If the raiser is crazy aggressive, I'm three betting.

[JesseW316]

I have itI use it when I'm playing cash games, although that isn't too muchit is a HUGE advantage I feel, for multi-tablers (I am one).

[seemorenuts]

What if you are a very tight Sklansky-like player, would PT or other programs help you that much?I find I don't have enough RAM and the free version runs way to slow.I also play MTTs and I vaguely know that they help, but how much data do you have to collect to makeit useful for MTTs?

[gilbertology]

I've never used any software thingamathings, but I don't play much NL except for the occasional tournament. I have PT just sitting on my desktop and haven't opened it in 2 years. I should prolly try importing all my hands and seeing what my own "stats" are, then try to get them to the optimal 14/7 level.

[ColeSLaw]

Obviously 14/7 as optimal is a joke, but can someone point me in the direction of discussion on optimal numbers (idc what stakes it is geared towards, just some chatter on it) ?

[finztotheleft]

I thought optimal stats were 36/24/36

[HermanKahn]

I don't use off-the-shelf software because it's not nuanced enough. You'll learn more if you keep track of how you play with a pen and paper and calculate your leaks yourself. Seriously. Cumulative totals are misleading because they don't take into account table dynamics and shifting your game to match your opponent. Sometimes it's 100 percent correct to be TAG, sometimes LAG, or something inbetween-- who gives a damn what my average is. Likewise, if you don't play differently when you're in a six-handed game versus a nine-handed one (or at different stakes), you've got a problem. However, if you keep a "borderline decision log"-- i.e. a journal of all the plays you were uncertain about, and your specific thought processes each step of the way-- you'll find your weaknesses soon enough. The more you think and write about what you're doing, the better. Crunching numbers is fine and dandy, but no substitute for good old-fashioned self-examination. "The unexamined game is not worth playing", to borrow a phrase.Did you ever stop to think that maybe one of your main leaks isn't how you play specific hands, it's how you underestimate or overestimate your opponents? How often will you donk off your stack thinking "that guy is an idiot, I'll bet he hasn't got sh*t" or fold a monster because you're terrified to face an all-in by a seeming TAG? Software won't capture that, but your journal will. "never underestimate your enemy's ability to underestimate you", to quote noted five-card-stud player Richard Milhous Nixon. If working as a DoD analyst taught me anything, it's that people who base decisions on meaningless numbers are the ones at a disadvantage.

[SuperJon]

finztotheleft, on Saturday, May 12th, 2007, 2:13 AM, said:

I thought optimal stats were 36/24/36

When you say 36/24/36What stats do those numbers represent?

[Czech Razor]

SuperJon, on Saturday, May 12th, 2007, 11:38 AM, said:

When you say 36/24/36What stats do those numbers represent?

Chest/Waist/Thighs FTW.

[bipolarbear]

rawkodd, on Tuesday, May 8th, 2007, 6:58 PM, said:

84% of all statistics are made up on the spot

bill burr?

[SuperJon]

Czech Razor, on Saturday, May 12th, 2007, 1:59 PM, said:

Chest/Waist/Thighs FTW.

Wow, I am so damn slow.Ok, seriously now...what are the best pokertracker stats to have?

[SuperJon]

Czech Razor, on Saturday, May 12th, 2007, 1:59 PM, said:

Chest/Waist/Thighs FTW.

Wow, I am so damn slow.Ok, seriously now...what are the best pokertracker stats to have?