5-10 Nl, Venetian Style

[Naismith 0]

I was playing 5-10NL in Vegas. I was playing fairly tight but the deck slammed me in the face, so it probably looked like I was playing looser than I was.I limped from the CO with 10c-9c. The SB raised to 50. Everyone folded to me. I called. He hadn't played a hand since I sat down, which was only a couple of orbits. We took the flop heads up, both about 1k deep.10d-7d-2sSB bets 50. Hero...?

[Acid_Knight 2]

I think I told you this during the hand, but I'd call and reevaluate on the turn. His small bet is very suspect and you can easily call it with position and while getting good odds to outdraw him if you are behind. If you flat call and he makes an assertive turn bet, I'd just dump it.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I think I told you this during the hand, but I'd call and reevaluate on the turn. His small bet is very suspect and you can easily call it with position and while getting good odds to outdraw him if you are behind. If you flat call and he makes an assertive turn bet, I'd just dump it.

One player to a hand, please. Oh, and I'd do what AK said.

[erac22 0]

I like a call too, but wouldn't mind a raise to 150 and dump it unimproved to further aggression. YOu might get better responses in nl strat.

[Lavitz 0]

I don't mind peeling one off here with TP. Raising is a mistake IMO because usually we're only getting called when behind and then we're inflating a pot with TP no kicker. We do have position so cold call and reevaluate turn. If he fires turn card then most likely abandon ship unless we improve.

[cwik 0]

While I don't hate the call, I think I like putting in a raise here a lot of the time. What is our plan here for the rest of the hand?? about half the deck is scare cards for you, and what happens when the turn blanks and the villain fires again?? are we flat calling again or putting in an even bigger reraise at this point? If we are calling behind again, then we are essentially giving the villain if he is not already ahead two looks to improve on a board you are already seemingly not comfortable with. I think that if you are not willing to take the lead in position when you hit your hand, it is probably not a great idea to call the raise with T high in the first place.

[Webslinger516 0]

While I don't hate the call, I think I like putting in a raise here a lot of the time. What is our plan here for the rest of the hand?? about half the deck is scare cards for you, and what happens when the turn blanks and the villain fires again?? are we flat calling again or putting in an even bigger reraise at this point? If we are calling behind again, then we are essentially giving the villain if he is not already ahead two looks to improve on a board you are already seemingly not comfortable with. I think that if you are not willing to take the lead in position when you hit your hand, it is probably not a great idea to call the raise with T high in the first place.

This goes back to one of DN's strategy posts. What are you trying to accomplish with a raise here? Are we trying to protect the best hand here? How sure are we that we have the best hand? On the other hand, you might say you're raising for information. But DN says that you can get just as much information from just smooth-calling. If he bets, and you raise, and he calls, what have you learned? If he bets, you call and then he fires at the turn again, what have you learned? DN argues that you've gotten information in both situations, but in the latter situation, you actually have a chance to SUCK OUT on him. Also, by just calling and folding the turn unimproved, it's only cost you one bet. I think it's great advice. Therefore, I think calling here in position is the better move 90% of the time.

[Jordan 1]

This goes back to one of DN's strategy posts. What are you trying to accomplish with a raise here? Are we trying to protect the best hand here? How sure are we that we have the best hand? On the other hand, you might say you're raising for information. But DN says that you can get just as much information from just smooth-calling. If he bets, and you raise, and he calls, what have you learned? If he bets, you call and then he fires at the turn again, what have you learned? DN argues that you've gotten information in both situations, but in the latter situation, you actually have a chance to SUCK OUT on him. Also, by just calling and folding the turn unimproved, it's only cost you one bet. I think it's great advice. Therefore, I think calling here in position is the better move 90% of the time.

uhm, raising the flop bet will do a few things.get folds from air, AK/AQ, put more money in the pot while we are ahead, if he does have AK/AQ and wants to chase...and if he does have say KK/AA a raise here COULD slow him down, and he may just call and not fire turn. thus we get a free look at river if we decide to check thru.the danger in this play, is he could decide to raise the flop after you raise, and then we have to fold...but on the other hand, if you are just calling and planning to fold on the turn UI, then taking a chance here on the flop is the better play. you have position...you can use it.if you just call though, and the turn is a diamond (ie the flush got there) and he leads, you really have to raise...otherwise just fold on the flop.--dont think calling is the only way you get a chance to suckout. raising can buy you free cards, or if you think it's the right play, a bet on the turn to take the pot down there, if you suspect he has an AK/AQ/AJ, or smaller pp type hand.it's really not that cut and dry...calling that is, as 90% of the time the best play.- Jordan

[Webslinger516 0]

dont think calling is the only way you get a chance to suckout. raising can buy you free cards, or if you think it's the right play, a bet on the turn to take the pot down there, if you suspect he has an AK/AQ/AJ, or smaller pp type hand.it's really not that cut and dry...calling that is, as 90% of the time the best play.- Jordan

I never said it was the only way to get a chance to suck out. I was just adding the discussion that there are other ways of getting information than raising the flop. Daniel's article made that impact on me in cash poker. I like calling here 90% of the time because it's the cheapest way to assess where you're at on the turn with a mediocre hand. If he fires off on the turn with a strong bet, I'd just fold it. If I called and I actually had the best hand, there's at worst a 36% chance he'd suck out (unless he flopped a monster draw).Raising the flop isn't a bad play either, it's just not my style most of the time with a mediocre hand. If this were limit hold'em I'd raise to see where I'm at.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

I agree with webslinger. Although said atricle was written for tournament advice, it was written for early levels of deep stacked tournaments, whoch are very very similar to ring games.Smooth call and take one off. BTW Cwik, half the deck isn't a scare card. A really tight player raised - I doubt he has 9-8 or J-8, so all of the straight cards that could come aren't really that scary. Only scary cards are diamond, Ace, King, Queen. A Jack is unlikely to improve a tight players raise (unless he has J-J) and it does give us a re-draw, so I'm not counting it... but if you want to, you can.Either way, I personally like smooth-calling in position, especially because there's almost NO way we're behind right now (that's NOT the kind of flop that someone's gonna softplay ($50 bet into $150+ pot) an overpair on... straight draws and flush draws, oh my!)... to those who say, "If you think you're ahead then raise." What if he comes over the top with Ad-Kd or Ad-Qd, then we have to fold and we've given away money in an unecesarry raise.

[Naismith 0]

A really tight player raised

I never said he was really tight. I just said he hadn't played a hand in the couple orbits I was at the table.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

You know what, I was gonna make a long post about how to play 9 T suited from the CO and was almost done, but I decided to delete it because I would rather let you donkeys keep on limping and flat calling raises with 9 T preflop when there is like nothing but the blinds already in the pot. GG

[Naismith 0]

You know what, I was gonna make a long post about how to play 9 T suited from the CO and was almost done, but I decided to delete it because I would rather let you donkeys keep on limping and flat calling raises with 9 T preflop when there is like nothing but the blinds already in the pot. GG

Thank you for your contribution.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

You know what, I was gonna make a long post about how to play 9 T suited from the CO and was almost done, but I decided to delete it because I would rather let you donkeys keep on limping and flat calling raises with 9 T preflop when there is like nothing but the blinds already in the pot. GG

He says with his T-8 suited avatar... lololol.The hand was played fine pre... I would love to hear your wisdom, though.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

I never said he was really tight. I just said he hadn't played a hand in the couple orbits I was at the table.

Thats pretty rocky for a full ring...

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

Thank you for your contribution.

np. and yes, there is a correct way to play 9 T or 8 T soooooted. Naismith showed us how NOT to play it.

[Webslinger516 0]

He says with his T-8 suited avatar... lololol.

lol i was gonna say the same thing.Btw, I would have liked to hear said advice about playing 109s on the cutoff though. Always good to hear different insights.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

Naismith showed us how NOT to play it.

What? Call a raise IN POSITION in a ring game with T-9 suited... do you hear your ignorance?

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

He says with his T-8 suited avatar... lololol.The hand was played fine pre... I would love to hear your wisdom, though.

You forgot one thing though, T 8 never loses! Just ask Jordan Morgan.

[Naismith 0]

np. and yes, there is a correct way to play 9 T or 8 T soooooted. Naismith showed us how NOT to play it.

With all due respect, since I know nothing about you, I'll just say you're wrong. There's no set way to play suited connectors.I'm not sure why you've bothered coming to the NL Strategy section, but we try to keep the worthless flaming to General. Please, if you have no interest in contributing any content, go there.

[Omaha Hi/Lo 0]

You forgot one thing though, T 8 never loses! Just ask Jordan Morgan.

You don't have to tell me that... is it spades for you, because I'm clubs? Just check out my blog below... lol.

[pokerplayer24 0]

Preflop is terrible. I dont know how anyone could possibly argue otherwise.Either raise or fold dont open limp it from the co.As played id tend to call the flop and see what develops on the turn since we have position.

[mtdesmoines 3]

With all due respect, since I know nothing about you, I'll just say you're wrong. There's no set way to play suited connectors.I'm not sure why you've bothered coming to the NL Strategy section, but we try to keep the worthless flaming to General. Please, if you have no interest in contributing any content, go there.

Nicely said. All of it. Although I'm interested in hearing the "right way" to play it in this situation. Sat night, I was playing the last hand (game is breaking) of a $2/5 NL game. Most of us have $600+ and I wake up UTG with 9cTc. WTF, last hand, right? So I lead for $10. Somehow it gets back to me at $40 with 7 players. I complete. Flop is T23 rainbow. SB BB check and I lead for $75. Folds around to SB, who looks sick. I know he's under TT and if he pushes, I instacall. He mucks and I rake. Seems similar. Comments?At the cage, SB tells me he has 55.

[Acid_Knight 2]

With all due respect, since I know nothing about you, I'll just say you're wrong. There's no set way to play suited connectors.

I want to hear from him how to properly play a suited connector. I think it will be of great entertainment value.Also, "with all due respect" means "I will give you none" here and I like it.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

ok, since I'm sort of new around here, i'll give you guys a free one. After that, I charge $100 an hour for lessons.You have to remember to ask yourselves; wwdd?Would Daniel limp in with T 9 and then call a $50 raise to see a flop against a guy who hasn't played a hand in an hour for a pot with $20 in it? Maybe, but both players would have to be deep-stacked (at least 1.5k to 2k in a 5/10NL game) and if you hit your hand, you need to be sure you're getting paid off by the donk with a big PP. Naismith, you got us completely lost in this hand. Look at the way SB played the last hour (I'm just assuming 2 orbits=20 hands=about 1 hour). Not 1 single hand and all of a sudden comes out of the SB with that big a raise. He has JJ or better about 75% of the time and AK the other 25%. He's not on a play. That's for sure. So you're basically playing this hand to hit 2 pair, a straight or flush and if all you get is top pair, then muck the flop. You have 5 outs at this point 75% of the time (probably less because if 7 people folded preflop in front of you, it's pretty likely there was a 49os or a T3os in there somewhere) and you're getting 3 to 1 to call the $50 on the flop. I just don't like the limp-flat call $50 at all to see the flop. You're just throwing away money there. So call the flop. You just put $100 in there and you have no idea what villain has going to the turn. If you're gonna play 9T, take control of the hand from the get-go.So let's restart the hand.Daniel would open with a raise from CO, probably around $30-35. Now we are in a very defined position because what the SB does from here will tell us a lot. He hasn't played in an hour. If he re-raises pf to say $90, we can probably be sure he's got at least a PP over TT. So do we call or fold? Well, at least we know what he has now (or have a good idea). If we're deep-stacked, then yes. By all means call. Implied odds are good if you flop something good and 9T is a good disguised hand which will probably get paid if you hit. If you're sitting under say... $700, then fold. You play suited connectors for the implied odds solely unless you're DN and know what everyone holds every hand. OK, so villain raises to $90, we call $60 more with the 9T clubs. We're looking for at least 2 pair, oe str8 draw or 4-flush on this flop. If we don't get it, fold. Simple as that.