947 replies to this topic

[DanielNegreanu]

Have you ever considered the possibility that the Bible doesn't actually condemn the homosexual lifestyle? That instead of asking people who were born as homosexuals to pray to become straight, they should be accepted as followers of Christ regardless of their sexual orientation? The idea that a homosexual is living a life of sin has NEVER sat well with me and I have a tough time believing it. There is far too much evidence supporting the fact that people are born homosexuals and that it's not a choice, nor is it a mental disorder. In reading the following: http://www.soulforce...e-gay-christian I found lots of information that supports the idea that homosexuality is not a sin. I haven't had a chance to verify the facts written in this piece yet, but I plan on looking at both sides of it. I found the informaton on Sodom to be extremely interesting. There seems to be so much misinformation about the fall of Sodom and the reasons for it. It's quite a long read, but I think it's interesting.

[Flack_attack]

The Bible is pretty clear about homosexuality--it is a sin and we should kill all practicioners.

[DerekTah]

I do believe homosexuality is a sin and an abomination against god.I also believe this about lust, greed, apathy to god and man, murder, pride and of course vegatarians. Thing is we can be forgiven for our sins (well except vegatarianism, they go straight to hell).Also I must add, why does the continued myth about pigs still being footballs continue.

[copernicus]

There is no such thing as "sin", so no, homosexualtiy is not a sin...just disgusting (unless its two attractive women of course...sorry Rosie, you don't qualify)

[crowTrobot]

DanielNegreanu, on Friday, December 22nd, 2006, 7:59 PM, said:

Have you ever considered the possibility that the Bible doesn't actually condemn the homosexual lifestyle? That instead of asking people who were born as homosexuals to pray to become straight, they should be accepted as followers of Christ irregardless of their sexual orientation?

why, you thinking of coming out?

Quote

The idea that a homosexual is living a life of sin has NEVER sat well with me and I have a tough time believing it. There is far too much evidence supporting the fact that people are born homosexuals and that it's not a choice, nor is it a mental disorder.

considering that scientific evidence combined with common sense pretty much contradicts all fundamental christian belief, using those things to parse what is and isn't sin is just a pointless double standard. i think the bible is reasonably clear on that issue, and if you feel you need to selectively interpret that part out to fit science/common sense, maybe you should be applying the same standard to your belief as a whole. seriously.

[_Great_Dane_]

DerekTah, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 12:31 AM, said:

I do believe homosexuality is a sin and an abomination against god.I also believe this about lust, greed, apathy to god and man, murder, pride and of course vegatarians. Thing is we can be forgiven for our sins (well except vegatarianism, they go straight to hell).Also I must add, why does the continued myth about pigs still being footballs continue.

Daniel,your efforts to broaden the minds of the forum are appreciated, but you didn't really think that you'd get any serious consideration here; did you?And Derek; I don't know if you were serious, but there may be some here, including the original poster, who are vegetarians and may take your threats about "going to hell" more seriously than you had intended them to be taken.

[Ron_Mexico]

DanielNegreanu, on Friday, December 22nd, 2006, 10:59 PM, said:

Have you ever considered the possibility that the Bible doesn't actually condemn the homosexual lifestyle? That instead of asking people who were born as homosexuals to pray to become straight, they should be accepted as followers of Christ irregardless of their sexual orientation? The idea that a homosexual is living a life of sin has NEVER sat well with me and I have a tough time believing it. There is far too much evidence supporting the fact that people are born homosexuals and that it's not a choice, nor is it a mental disorder. In reading the following: http://www.soulforce...e-gay-christian I found lots of information that supports the idea that homosexuality is not a sin. I haven't had a chance to verify the facts written in this piece yet, but I plan on looking at both sides of it. I found the informaton on Sodom to be extremely interesting. There seems to be so much misinformation about the fall of Sodom and the reasons for it. It's quite a long read, but I think it's interesting.

this is the best day ever.My dad invented toaster strudel

[brvheart]

crowTrobot, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 12:14 AM, said:

considering that scientific evidence combined with common sense pretty much contradicts all fundamental christian belief, using those things to parse what is and isn't sin is just a pointless double standard. i think the bible is reasonably clear on that issue, and if you feel you need to selectively interpret that part out to fit science/common sense, maybe you should be applying the same standard to your belief as a whole. seriously.

QFT. Either believe what the BIBLE says, or don't. Don't select certain things God says and say, "He probably didn't mean it." Sodom aside, the NEW testament is pretty clear, just like Crow said.

[BWToth]

Fine, lets get off of what the Bibles says about this issue and get to the more discussion-worthy topic...Does one choose to be homosexual? My idea, without being homosexual, not dong much research, but being friends with a number who are gay...Not a conscious choice at all. Why would someone choose to be gay in our society. It's almost the equivalent of during you're adolescence deciding it would be worthwile to chop off both your legs. I also DO NOT believe there is a 'homo' gene that can be passed on. Essentially, many factors come in to play that affect the way we turn out, whether it be our favorite color, or someone becoming a serial killer. Factors such as upbrining, environment, mental development, and even hormonal balance seem to provide, in conjunction the best guess at why one individual is homosexual and another is not. I do not think homosexuality is the norm, obviously, but I feel that it should be treated just like any other preference or desire we have in our lives.Why do I like brunettes better than blondes (not dudes, chicks). Why do some people strive for material possessions, while other strive for emotional/intellectual enlightenment?If you want to put things into the context of the Bible, then I don't think God can punish someone for being homosexual, a psychotic human, a bipolar person, someone who is depressed, has add, or any other abnormality with regard to personality or psyche.Brining it back to the irrelevant realm of the bible:I don't care what the bible 'states' regarding the issue, the fact is, if god is the type of being that he is portrayed to be in the bible then it would make absolutely no sense for him to send a gay person to eternal damnation for an abnormality that they have no fault in having.What if a 5 yr finds his dads gun and thinks it's a toy and shoots his little sister? is the baby going to hell, the dad?

[brvheart]

BWToth, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 1:12 AM, said:

Fine, lets get off of what the Bibles says about this issue and get to the more discussion-worthy topic...Does one choose to be homosexual? My idea, without being homosexual, not dong much research, but being friends with a number who are gay...Not a conscious choice at all. Why would someone choose to be gay in our society. It's almost the equivalent of during you're adolescence deciding it would be worthwile to chop off both your legs. I also DO NOT believe there is a 'homo' gene that can be passed on. Essentially, many factors come in to play that affect the way we turn out, whether it be our favorite color, or someone becoming a serial killer. Factors such as upbrining, environment, mental development, and even hormonal balance seem to provide, in conjunction the best guess at why one individual is homosexual and another is not. I do not think homosexuality is the norm, obviously, but I feel that it should be treated just like any other preference or desire we have in our lives.Why do I like brunettes better than blondes (not dudes, chicks). Why do some people strive for material possessions, while other strive for emotional/intellectual enlightenment?If you want to put things into the context of the Bible, then I don't think God can punish someone for being homosexual, a psychotic human, a bipolar person, someone who is depressed, has add, or any other abnormality with regard to personality or psyche.Brining it back to the irrelevant realm of the bible:I don't care what the bible 'states' regarding the issue, the fact is, if god is the type of being that he is portrayed to be in the bible then it would make absolutely no sense for him to send a gay person to eternal damnation for an abnormality that they have no fault in having.What if a 5 yr finds his dads gun and thinks it's a toy and shoots his little sister? is the baby going to hell, the dad?

You have little to no understanding of the Biblical God. Sin can NOT enter heaven. Everyone has sinned. (the types are irrelevant) The price of sin is death. (seperation from God) The ONLY way to have your sin removed is believing that Jesus die for you to take the punishment that you deserve on himself. (He only asks that you believe in return) Then you enter heaven when you die. If you don't follow these steps you will certainly be seperated from God for eternity, according to the Bible. It's COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT if you or Daniel or anyone else thinks that God, "Couldn't possibly do this... or that". God doesn't change the rules up because someone has feelings one way or the other. God is a rock that never changes.ps. Sexual intercourse with another man is completely different than a 5 year old mistaking a gun for a toy.

[BWToth]

I'm assuming the gay person believes in god. Those people do exist you know. That being said, he could be ****ing a dude in the *** and have a heart attack and die, and according to what the bible says about god, that person goes to heaven.Furthermore, if we are within the realm of the bible, then it IS possible to make inferences about god based on what is laid out in the bible. The bible does address every single circumstance that could ever come and assess it based on godly standards. But you can use these godly standards and apply them to a situation and make an estimate of what god would determine in a given situation.YOU SEEM TO HAVE LITTLE OR NO UNDERSTANDING OF REASONING, LOGIC, OR DEDUCTION.How do you even make a single decision in your daily life. What happens when a situation arises whose circumstances haven't been discussed in scripture, do you just lay down and go to sleep and avoid it?How do you know the situation with the 5 yr old is any different, does god say so in the bible?You have major gaps and flaws in the way you're mind works, you use irrational arguments to make your point because the point you are trying to make cannot be made without being irrational.At what point do you reject god.Hypothetical, instead of the bible stating love your neighbor, the bible said at the age of 28 you must kill your mother. Would you kill her in order to follow the word of god? Remember that story of abraham and isaac? abraham had more faith than anyone, and he could barely bring himself to kill his son.Do you honestly believe that if you were put in the same circumstances as him you could go through with it.

[cu in 4years Dan]

im pretty sure the bible actually directly talks about the issue:"if a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a women, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surley be put to death" Leviticus 20:103.now while i dont like the thought of killing, the bible directly says homosexuality is a sin, and God looks down on it.that being said i do not hate gay people, i actually have a handful of gay friends who are perfectly good people.so i do not want to berate them, but i dont want them to continue their lifestyle as it is against my beliefs.

[wsox8]

No, but I'm not religious and don't believe in god.

[cu in 4years Dan]

brvheart, on Friday, December 22nd, 2006, 10:36 PM, said:

QFT. Either believe what the BIBLE says, or don't. Don't select certain things God says and say, "He probably didn't mean it." Sodom aside, the NEW testament is pretty clear, just like Crow said.

i totally agree.the bibls says that it is a sin, it also says it is a sin to change the bibles words or follow different ideas than what is written in the bible.its not like we can just say "well just for today i dont think killing people is a sin so im going to kill people today". you follow what is written by God in the bible. end of story.

[DerekTah]

_Great_Dane_, on Friday, December 22nd, 2006, 10:27 PM, said:

Daniel,your efforts to broaden the minds of the forum are appreciated, but you didn't really think that you'd get any serious consideration here; did you?And Derek; I don't know if you were serious, but there may be some here, including the original poster, who are vegetarians and may take your threats about "going to hell" more seriously than you had intended them to be taken.

Tounge was in cheek with the vegetarian comment (seriously, I don't recall "Thou shall not eat veggies").Ok, and back to a serious thought, I notice alot of people are saying "does one really choose to become homosexual?". So I got a question of my own, "what does it matter anyway?"It used to be believed that homosexuals had mental problems and that it was not a choice, and they were hated.Now its believed that homosexuals don't nessecarily have mental problems and that it may be a choice, and they are still hated.The question is "is it ok to discriminate against homosexuals and treat them as lesser people?". Period, whether they choose it or not should not be considered. Some will say "yes its ok" and some will say "no, its not ok". That is the argument.

[Head_Trauma]

DanielNegreanu, on Friday, December 22nd, 2006, 7:59 PM, said:

irregardless

This is not a word. Think about the meaning of the word 'regardless.' Why add any prefix to that word? It makes no sense...

[Shimmering Wang]

cu in 4years Dan, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 4:11 AM, said:

i totally agree.the bibls says that it is a sin, it also says it is a sin to change the bibles words or follow different ideas than what is written in the bible.its not like we can just say "well just for today i dont think killing people is a sin so im going to kill people today". you follow what is written by God in the bible. end of story.

"if a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a women, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surley be put to death" Leviticus 20:103.What a fucking cartoon of a hypocrite. Do we kill them like the bible says? Or, just for today, do we commit the sin of ignoring what the bible says?This is my favorite thing in the world. Just take some time and look at some of the punishments prescribed by the bible. Then look at what you said three posts ago. Wang

[offset]

This thread is gay.

[cu in 4years Dan]

Shimmering Wang, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 3:23 AM, said:

"if a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a women, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surley be put to death" Leviticus 20:103.What a fucking cartoon of a hypocrite. Do we kill them like the bible says? Or, just for today, do we commit the sin of ignoring what the bible says?This is my favorite thing in the world. Just take some time and look at some of the punishments prescribed by the bible. Then look at what you said three posts ago. Wang

typical moron who doesnt understand.we arnt to actually kill people, just dicourage and look down. the language then and now differs alot.

[Shimmering Wang]

cu in 4years Dan, on Saturday, December 23rd, 2006, 10:02 AM, said:

typical moron who doesnt understand.we arnt to actually kill people, just dicourage and look down. the language then and now differs alot.

Really? Seems like it's pretty literal to me. Seems to ME like you're picking and choosing. What's the difference? You're selectively choosing which parts of the Bible to believe. I don't think it was common at ANY time for "we should kill them both" to mean the same as "we should make 'tsk-tsk' noises and gestures at them both, you know, in general. Mostly we should just make them feel bad, is what I'm saying." That's hypocritical garbage, and you know it. Wang