1179 replies to this topic

[vbnautilus]

Balloon guy, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 7:12 PM, said:

Average work for a teacher is 32 weeks a year when factor in sick leaves, holidays etc.My daughter went to private school and we paid ~$3,500 a year, small school with 15 kids per class. The teachers made about 2/3rd what they would have gotten in public school. But the kids in public school represent $10,000 a year, if we paid that in private school, the kids would eat lobster and steak for lunch, the teachers would all make $100K and the girl's volleyball team could afford a coach with a remote chance to be competitive.

uhhhthe private schools where I live range from 20K-30K per year.http://www.lamag.com...id=10674&page=4

[hblask]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:31 PM, said:

Thank you BG.Even if this doesn't agree with your politics, we are still a blue state and I can tell you with ....85% certainty, that this is what the majority of Wisconsin wants.

I have dozens of family members in WI, and I can tell you with 85% certainty that the majority of the state wants the unions kicked out so that public employees receive market wages instead of above-market wages.

[hblask]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:52 PM, said:

Very, very few. They've begun trickling in today, and more are coming this weekend. But this has been 99% Wisconsin.My alma mater is not Madison, but they (and other state schools) had thousands of students protesting there too. The entire state is on the same page right now.

I'm hearing stories from relatives about teachers giving students grade bumps if they come to the protests.Nice lesson plan.

[custom36]

hblask, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:53 PM, said:

I have dozens of family members in WI, and I can tell you with 85% certainty that the majority of the state wants the unions kicked out so that public employees receive market wages instead of above-market wages.

hblask, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:54 PM, said:

I'm hearing stories from relatives of teachers giving students grade bumps if they come to the protests.Nice lesson plan.

I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but it's simply not true.

[hblask]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:55 PM, said:

I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but it's simply not true.

You realize the state has a population of over 5M, right? That the ten or twenty thousand at the capital is a tiny fraction of that?The state voted to throw the Dems out in the last election for this very reason. This is what Walker and the R's promised, it's what the voters wanted, and the voters are thrilled that someone is finally keeping their promise.Get your head out of the union propaganda machine and talk to an actual person with a regular job.

[custom36]

hblask, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:57 PM, said:

You realize the state has a population of over 5M, right? That the ten or twenty thousand at the capital is a tiny fraction of that?The state voted to throw the Dems out in the last election for this very reason. This is what Walker and the R's promised, it's what the voters wanted, and the voters are thrilled that someone is finally keeping their promise.Get your head out of the union propaganda machine and talk to an actual person with a regular job.

I actually teach actual people that have or had actual jobs (and I am not striking...I'm working tomorrow morning). I have republican friends that live in very republican parts of the state. Aside from this week, I've had little involvement with union activism (though much of my family is made up of machinists and police officers, admittedly).There were 30,000 yesterday, and many more today, as well as statewide protests.All you can really do is take my word for it. Republicans got voted in on social issues and promises of balancing the budget and because Jim Doyle, our Dem former governor, was an idiot. Unfortunately, many people that voted for them did not believe they would start union-busting. I've spoken to many people who voted for Walker and are now ashamed that they did.I am no propagandist. And I am no sheep. There's no conspiracy here - this is a massive shift in public opinion. If a vote were held today, this state would once again be very blue.

[custom36]

I can't tell you why people are dressing in gorilla suits. I have no idea what that's about.

[hblask]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 10:05 PM, said:

I actually teach actual people that have or had actual jobs (and I am not striking...I'm working tomorrow morning). I have republican friends that live in very republican parts of the state. Aside from this week, I've had little involvement with union activism (though much of my family is made up of machinists and police officers, admittedly).There were 30,000 yesterday, and many more today, as well as statewide protests.All you can really do is take my word for it. Republicans got voted in on social issues and promises of balancing the budget and because Jim Doyle, our Dem former governor, was an idiot. Unfortunately, many people that voted for them did not believe they would start union-busting. I've spoken to many people who voted for Walker and are now ashamed that they did.I am no propagandist. And I am no sheep. There's no conspiracy here - this is a massive shift in public opinion. If a vote were held today, this state would once again be very blue.

30,000/5,000,000 = 0.6%I haven't done a count, but I think I have close to 20 relatives living in WI from all walks of life. The only ones who support the unions are the currently employed teachers. The unemployed teachers want the unions out so that qualified teachers can find jobs instead of keeping incompetent coddled teachers. The people with real jobs who overpay the teachers' salaries want the unions out.I saw a poll today: 56% support the governor, low 40s for the union. The R's won for a reason: WI is sick of overpaid bureaucrats dictating every aspect of their lives. That hasn't changed in two months since the election.

[Oggmonster]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:31 PM, said:

Thank you BG.Even if this doesn't agree with your politics, we are still a blue state and I can tell you with ....85% certainty, that this is what the majority of Wisconsin wants.

This is what Wisconsin wants, or this is what Madison wants? Because Madison is basically the Berkeley of the midwest. Wisconsin recently elected a governor that openly ran on a platform of, "Unions are bankrupting the state and I'm going to do everything I can to balance the budget."

[custom36]

Oggmonster, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 10:22 PM, said:

This is what Wisconsin wants, or this is what Madison wants? Because Madison is basically the Berkeley of the midwest. Wisconsin recently elected a governor that openly ran on a platform of, "Unions are bankrupting the state and I'm going to do everything I can to balance the budget."

But he ran against a guy that, like Doyle, was an idiot. Hell, I almost voted for Walker and I never vote republican. Unfortunately, the democratic party had gotten weak over the last 6 years. That's likely changing.Understand that this isn't all Madison people protesting. I saw thousands of shirts and signs today of people from Waukesha (republican city near Milwaukee), Green Bay, Eau Claire (near MN), La Crosse, Wausau, etc. This protest was hastily thrown together on Tuesday and has been gaining incredible steam since then. We've done a lot of on-the-fly organizing since then. I never expected anything like this. And it's only going to get larger.

[slink]

lol at the 9 1/2 work month per year. As a teacher I put in well over 2000 hours per year (averaging out to a 40+ hour work week x 50 weeks, figuring in the other 2 weeks as 'paid' vacation.We chose this profession, not for the pay, but to do something we love to do (mostly that, and summers off to spend time with my own kids). That said, the pay is adequate...until recently. Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future.Granted, it would be nice for administrators to be able to get rid of the dead wood. But is this protest about that?As a conservative I am disconcerted about the flack received from the 'right' on this, and it has put me on the side of the unions on this issue.

[custom36]

slink, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 10:36 PM, said:

lol at the 9 1/2 work month per year. As a teacher I put in well over 2000 hours per year (averaging out to a 40+ hour work week x 50 weeks, figuring in the other 2 weeks as 'paid' vacation.We chose this profession, not for the pay, but to do something we love to do (mostly that, and summers off to spend time with my own kids). That said, the pay is adequate...until recently. Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future.Granted, it would be nice for administrators to be able to get rid of the dead wood. But is this protest about that?As a conservative I am disconcerted about the flack received from the 'right' on this, and it has put me on the side of the unions on this issue.

Thank you for teaching. I only teach college, but I've subbed district and know the incredible amount of work you guys do. I think it's something that's very tough to understand unless you've done it.

[slink]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 8:42 PM, said:

Thank you for teaching. I only teach college, but I've subbed district and know the incredible amount of work you guys do. I think it's something that's very tough to understand unless you've done it.

Thanks for that. It's true that not many understand what it takes unless they've done it (probably true of most areas). Before I became a teacher, I also thought that most were lazy fat-cat unionists who only wanted to suck at the public teat.

[ol'number7]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 8:52 PM, said:

Very, very few. They've begun trickling in today, and more are coming this weekend. But this has been 99% Wisconsin.My alma mater is not Madison, but they (and other state schools) had thousands of students protesting there too. The entire state is on the same page right now.

This is not true, you should acknowledge that

[custom36]

ol'number7, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 11:02 PM, said:

This is not true, you should acknowledge that

Lol, fine. Much of the state. Whatever.One aspect of this has been sorely under-reported, in my opinion: Yes, 14 democratic state senators walked out. But you know who was with them? 2 republican state senators. I haven't been able to find names yet (granted, I haven't looked hard), but they should be commended for standing up for what they (or the people they represent. hopefully both) believe in, despite the party line.

[Oggmonster]

custom36, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 10:28 PM, said:

But he ran against a guy that, like Doyle, was an idiot. Hell, I almost voted for Walker and I never vote republican. Unfortunately, the democratic party had gotten weak over the last 6 years. That's likely changing.Understand that this isn't all Madison people protesting. I saw thousands of shirts and signs today of people from Waukesha (republican city near Milwaukee), Green Bay, Eau Claire (near MN), La Crosse, Wausau, etc. This protest was hastily thrown together on Tuesday and has been gaining incredible steam since then. We've done a lot of on-the-fly organizing since then. I never expected anything like this. And it's only going to get larger.

Quoted in today's paper, the union rep in my area (La Crosse) had these doozies. "Ultimately, what we're talking about here is workers' rights. Once they're done with the public sector, they'll come for the private workers as well." "This has nothing to do with balancing the budget, it has everything to do with whittling away the middle class, and ending workers' rights in the state.Which leads me to believe that he is either functionally retarded or, like all union reps I've met in my life, deliberately disingenuous and hyperbolic in order to further his political agenda.

[Balloon guy]

slink, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 8:36 PM, said:

lol at the 9 1/2 work month per year. As a teacher I put in well over 2000 hours per year (averaging out to a 40+ hour work week x 50 weeks, figuring in the other 2 weeks as 'paid' vacation.We chose this profession, not for the pay, but to do something we love to do (mostly that, and summers off to spend time with my own kids). That said, the pay is adequate...until recently. Pay cuts (health care increases of 600% over the last 14 months-granted it was really, really low before the increases), and no raises since 2008, and none forthcoming for the foreseeable future.Granted, it would be nice for administrators to be able to get rid of the dead wood. But is this protest about that?As a conservative I am disconcerted about the flack received from the 'right' on this, and it has put me on the side of the unions on this issue.

Well for comparison, my health insurance has a $5,600 deductible per person each year for my wife and I in 2008 and we went from $280 a month to $860 a month now.We had to raise our deductible to $10,600 each. This lowered our monthly payment to $350 a month.I have not received a paycheck for 2 years because work is that slow. Living on savings and credit cardsSo I am not the right person to feel sympathy for anyone dealing with 5%-10% pay cuts with full benefits.But I did go to a fundraiser for a local private school this morning for their annual fundraiser and got the full court slam for needing money. If I had some I would have given some.

[El Guapo]

How many times do we have to have this argument? Unions were necessary when we had gross negligence and had horrible situations for child labor. Like many things, unions, across the board, have gotten too much power and unfortunately are not as concerned with the best interests of the employees like they once were.

[Balloon guy]

El Guapo, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:26 PM, said:

How many times do we have to have this argument? Unions were necessary when we had gross negligence and had horrible situations for child labor. Like many things, unions, across the board, have gotten too much power and unfortunately are not as concerned with the best interests of the employees like they once were.

You just want children to dig coal for $.05 a month while rich people get tax cuts

[slink]

Balloon guy, on Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 9:25 PM, said:

So I am not the right person to feel sympathy for anyone dealing with 5%-10% pay cuts with full benefits.

If it was implied that I was looking for sympathy, my bad. I do know that some have it tougher. There will always be those that have it better, and those that have it tougher.Thought we were discussing specific issues about teachers and other public sector employees.And I believe you may be implying that 'full benefits' means that they are paid for, completely by others. I have also worked many years in the private sector with 'full benefits'. Doesn't mean they were free in either case.