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Well, I was reading the sports page of a recent USA Today newspaper and there staring me in the face was the GPI (Global Poker Index) rankings. With FCP's own Daniel Negreanu at the top. Yes, Daniel was right there in the same sports section as Lebron, Kobe, etc.

 

I've heard others (including Phil Ivey) refer to poker as a sport. What do you think, should we now start saying poker is a great sport, instead of a great game? Come in and give arguments for or against calling it a sport.

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Poker is considered a mind sport like Chess or Backgammon by many people but it of course isn't an athletic sport.

 

http://rt.com/news/p...ted-mind-sport/

Well it does involve "physical" and mental stamina to play in a long tournament or a long session (when you're in a good game), which is why some players try to stay in shape by jogging and exercising and eating right.

 

And most tells are"physical", such as heavy breathing, physical/nervous movement, etc.. So those players who might be better at controlling their "physical" breathing and "physical" movements will have an advantage. So I think there is a physical element to the game (or sport).

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Well it does involve "physical" and mental stamina to play in a long tournament or a long session (when you're in a good game), which is why some players try to stay in shape by jogging and exercising and eating right.

 

And some tells are"physical", such as heavy breathing, physical/nervous movement, etc.. So those players who might be better at controlling their "physical" breathing and "physical" movements will have an advantage. So I think there is a physical element to the game (or sport).

You're reaching.

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In Super System 1, Doyle said when he was a young man he once played poker for 5 straight days with no sleep, only taking bathroom and meal breaks (not sure if the meals were brought to the table or not). That is a "physical" skill that not many people could do. If he was able to play at a consistent level during those 5 days it would give him an advantage since players would be coming and going and Doyle would always have a greater feel for the table and its players than the other players would have.

 

A good gambling movie that showed the importance of physical stamina was "The Hustler". The Paul Newman character had more pure talent than the Jackie Gleason character but Gleason had more physical stamina and desire, and was able to wear down Newman over many hours.

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If you are arguing that poker is a sport, Doyle sitting in a chair for 5 days straight isn't going to win you the argument. That is like saying "who can hold their breath the longest" is a sport.

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If you are arguing that poker is a sport, Doyle sitting in a chair for 5 days straight isn't going to win you the argument. That is like saying "who can hold their breath the longest" is a sport.

They are somewhat different because the poker stamina Doyle had was gaining him a higher table makeup knowledge than the other players had.

 

And I could see how a "holding your breath the longest" contest (while dangerous) could be considered a sport because extensive physical training could increase your ability to hold your breath by increasing the oxygen level in your blood. Similarly poker players who work out and eat right are going to have greater stamina to sit and concentrate for long periods of time.

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Similarly poker players who work out and eat right are going to have greater stamina to sit and concentrate for long periods of time.

 

I once played a 74 hour session of 1/2 NL and came out $1,800 winner (after being stuck $600 at one point).

 

Mind you, I'm a fat ass that never works out and I eat horribly.

 

Not a sport.

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Unless your life's ambition is to be a sloppy fat ass that does nothing, then eating right and working out will make you better at anything you do.

 

I sit in front of a computer for 8 hours a day. If I started working out and eating healthy, there's a great chance I'm probably going to be better at my job. I won't be calling it a sport anytime soon.

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They are somewhat different because the poker stamina Doyle had was gaining him a higher table makeup knowledge than the other players had.

 

And I could see how a "holding your breath the longest" contest could be considered a sport because extensive physical training could increase your ability to hold your breath by increasing the oxygen level in your blood. Similarly poker players who work out and eat right are going to have greater stamina to sit and concentrate for long periods of time.

And I have put in 24 hour marathon Call of Duty sessions. That doesn't make video games a sport.

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I once played a 74 hour session of 1/2 NL and came out $1,800 winner (after being stuck $600 at one point).

 

Mind you, I'm a fat ass that never works out and I eat horribly.

 

Not a sport.

By any chance were drugs involved in your session (you don't have to answer), and there's always the possibility that if you were in shape and ate right you could have could have played even longer and better.

 

On the other hand just because someone is fat and eats horribly doesn't mean they don't have an innate physical skill to sit for long periods of time that other people don't have. Exercise and eating right might help most people to have greater poker playing endurance but maybe not those who have an innate ability to sit and be alert for long periods of time.

 

And for the record when I'm talking about poker being a sport, I am mostly talking about poker at its highest levels. I'm not talking about casual amateur players playing for recreation and entertainment.

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double post

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And for the record when I'm talking about poker being a sport, I am mostly talking about poker at its highest levels. I'm not talking about casual amateur players playing for recreation and entertainment.

 

And the only argument you are making is that high level poker players can stay awake for long amounts of time. Anyone can stay awake for a long time if they put their mind to it, it isn't just a poker thing.

 

It is what Bob said, a mind sport not an athletic sport.

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And the only argument you are making is that high level poker players can stay awake for long amounts of time. Anyone can stay awake for a long time if they put their mind to it...

Just because you're awake at the table after 15 hours of play doesn't mean you're in condition to play your A game.

 

And I also made the argument that some tells are"physical", such as heavy breathing, physical/nervous movement, etc.. So those players who are better at controlling their "physical" breathing and "physical" movements after making a huge bluff under pressure will have an advantage. So I think there is a definite physical skill element to the game at the highest levels and thus I have no problem when people like Phil Ivey refer to the game as a sport.

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And I have put in 24 hour marathon Call of Duty sessions. That doesn't make video games a sport.

 

Counterpoint: eSports competitor granted pro-athlete visa

 

I don't know if poker is a sport, but if competitive eating is classified as a sport (and I don't know either, if it is), then so should poker.

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Counterpoint: eSports competitor granted pro-athlete visa

 

I don't know if poker is a sport, but if competitive eating is classified as a sport (and I don't know either, if it is), then so should poker.

 

Daniel was the first poker player to receive that Visa many many years ago. Americans can thank that Visa for allowing in people like Bieber and Nickleback

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Counterpoint: eSports competitor granted pro-athlete visa

 

I don't know if poker is a sport, but if competitive eating is classified as a sport (and I don't know either, if it is), then so should poker.

As Bob said, poker is already classified as a mind sport. I'll argue it being a physical sport....that is a tremendous reach made by people who want to call themselves athletes. Or something like that.

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I think the problem for some people in calling poker a sport is that they associate sport with big physical movements such as hitting a baseball or dunking a basketball but what I am saying is that “intentional” physical non-movement (or having unreadable normal movements) when under intense pressure can also be a physical skill. If you are nervous (such as when making a huge bluff under pressure) there is– with many people– involuntary physical movements such as hands shaking or eyes blinking or taking bigger breaths. What I am saying is if you have the ability to make a huge bluff under pressure and can remain calm while your opponent is staring you down for 2 minutes, that can be considered just as much a physical skill as hitting a curve ball. Not everyone can hit a 90 mph curve ball and not everyone can make a huge bluff and remain calm and unreadable. These are unique “physical” skills. Thus since the “physical” skill of being able to make huge bluffs under pressure (and not be readable) is an important part of poker at its highest levels , then poker at its highest level is not just solely a mental sport, but also one that has important physical elements to it.

 

And I think if more people start thinking of live big stakes poker as a sport (that has physical elements to it) it will improve the image of the game, and will attract more sponsors to the game.

 

Of course poker– like the sports of boxing, race car driving, and cliff climbing– has a dangerous element to it– namely you can lose a lot of money if you’re not careful or skillful. But I’d rather have my kid play a sport where he can lose a lot of money (if he’s careless ) then have my kid be a race car driver, cliff climber, or a boxer– sports where he can be seriously physically hurt or killed.

 

So I think when more people become aware that live poker– at its highest levels– does not only require mental skills but also a few physical ones (such as being able to make a huge bluff under pressure and not be readable) then I think more people will accept it being called a sport. And when that happens more people will have a favorable image of it and more sponsors will start to come around.

 

Another way to get people to think this way is for more people in the poker community to start referring to poker as a sport in the news media and in interviews like I once heard Phil Ivey do.

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I think the problem for some people in calling poker a sport is that they associate sport with big physical movements such as hitting a baseball or dunking a basketball but what I am saying is that “intentional” physical non-movement (or having unreadable normal movements) when under intense pressure can also be a physical skill. If you are nervous (such as when making a huge bluff under pressure) there is– with many people– involuntary physical movements such as hands shaking or eyes blinking or taking bigger breaths. What I am saying is if you have the ability to make a huge bluff under pressure and can remain calm while your opponent is staring you down for 2 minutes, that can be considered just as much a physical skill as hitting a curve ball. Not everyone can hit a 90 mph curve ball and not everyone can make a huge bluff and remain calm and unreadable. These are unique “physical” skills. Thus since the “physical” skill of being able to make huge bluffs under pressure (and not be readable) is an important part of poker at its highest levels , then poker at its highest level is not just solely a mental sport, but also one that has important physical elements to it.

jfc no.

 

Quit trying to make that point. It is mental to control yourself during a bluff, not physical.

 

And you are making ONE point that happens very infrequently. And it only applies to live play, not online.

 

Endurance is the best point you can make, and that too, is a terrible point.

 

Poker is NOT a physical sport, quit trying to make mountains out of molehills.

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Quit trying to make that point. It is mental to control yourself during a bluff, not physical...

Then I assume you believe everyone who mentally wishes to remain calm and physically unreadable after betting 100,000 on a pure bluff can if they just mentally desire to.

 

 

Poker is NOT a physical sport...
I never said it was strictly a physical sport. It is mostly mental but also has physical elements to it at the highest levels.
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Then I assume you believe everyone who mentally wishes to remain calm and physically unreadable after betting 100,000 on a pure bluff can if they just mentally desire to.

Yes, I think you can teach yourself to be calm. Being physically unreadable isn't something you have to train at the gym to be able to do, you have to train your mind to be calm. That is a physical element controlled by the MIND.

 

I never said it was strictly a physical sport. It is mostly mental but also has physical elements to it at the highest levels.

You are right, you didn't, but you are clearly trying to make the case that poker is somehow more physical than it really is.

 

Does eating right and working out help in long sessions? Of course it does, but living a healthy lifestyle helps out in ALL aspects of life. It is a stretch to use that as evidence for why poker has elements of physicality in it, when that simply isn't correct.

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Does eating right and working out help in long sessions? Of course it does
Then you agree physical training can improve your poker in long sessions.

 

 

but living a healthy lifestyle helps out in ALL aspects of life. It is a stretch to use that as evidence for why poker has elements of physicality in it, when that simply isn't correct.
You just said above working out (physical training) can help your poker in long sessions. Now you're saying the fact that working out (physical training) can help your poker is not evidence that poker has elements of physicality.
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