timwakefield, on Thursday, January 27th, 2011, 11:54 AM, said:
Now this I completely agree with. It would probably be a much much better Hall if they let players vote. Like, if you've been in mlb for 8+ years or are retired and played 8+ years then you get a vote. The fact that it's morons like Dan Shaughnhgnghsy voting is almost preposterous. If players voted then all the steroid users would be judged on their records and numbers and abilities, and possible steroid use would be almost completely ignored I think. Not that that would be a perfect solution either, but it would be way better than how it is now.
Don't know if I want players voting, since players are often those that were extremely physically gifted but are pretty awful at player evaluation. Joe Morgan is probably the prime example of a guy who was an incredible player but knew stunningly little about why he was great. The guys that are probably most qualified to vote for the hall? (1) Writers/analysts who are actually taking advantage of all the new research out there that helps us avoid letting personal biases, selective memory, and other psychological factors influence whether someone is deserving or not. (2) A lot of the guys who work behind the scenes for baseball teams (particularly the more intelligently run teams like the Rays and Red Sox).(2) isn't a viable option for a lot of reasons, and neither really is (1), though over time more and more writers/analysts will begin to fall into category (1) just because progress is inevitable (though often slow). In the mean time, I don't know if there's a better option than what we have right now. Unfortunately.
Skeleton Jelly, on Thursday, January 27th, 2011, 11:58 AM, said:
I don't think players are any more informed than the media. In fact, I'd guess they know less. I'm also not sure possible steroid use would be ignored. Maybe it would be ignored by steroid users, but wouldn't the non-steroid users be upset that the others had an unfair advantage?I'm in the "the hall of fame is a historical museum" camp. Keeping someone out of the hall of fame because they broke some rules shouldn't be an available punishment. But I'd be ok with not letting him have an acceptance speech or participate in the ceremonies.
If someone broke rules or did something highly controversial (with proof, not just suspicion), then they ought to just mention it on the player's plaque or something like that, and let the fans decide how they feel about that player when they see him in the HOF. We should know that Gaylord Perry threw spitballs when they were long since made illegal, and I'll determine whether I despise him for it or not. We should know about all the players who used amphetamines (A TON). We should know that McGwire admitted to HGH (NOT the same thing as steroids AT ALL) and we as fans will make our own judgments. And Jeff Bagwell needs to be voted in and left untainted unless someone has proof that he used something.There's still the issue of the players who were clean and perhaps borderline and won't get in because of steroid users, and in their cases I really don't know what to say on their behalf. It's tough, but at the same time there were always players getting screwed out of the hall for one reason or another because of either other cheating players or stupid league rules (segregation almost certainly screwed a lot of black players from having a shot).
timwakefield, on Thursday, January 27th, 2011, 12:13 PM, said:
I don't think there are a lot of steroid haters playing in MLB, although I might just perceive that because they keep their mouths shut about it.
Meh, didn't everybody keep their mouth shut about it? Just like everyone doesn't seem to care about steroids in the NFL even to this very day? McGwire and Sosa made baseball fun and were really likeable, so we shrugged off our strong suspicions. It wasn't really until someone the media (and most of fans) despised got in on the action did people start to all of a sudden give a sh
it. I don't even like Bonds personally, but I do feel sorry that he had to take so much heat for using PEDs when he was only one among an ocean of users.And I suspect that players are divided on PEDs just like the general public. If I was a player who personally stayed clean, you bet your ass I'd have a problem with voting for PED users, and from that perspective I more than understand that.