Obama And The Plumber

[85suited 0]

“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the man asked. Obama responded by telling the voter that his business would get a 50% tax credit for health care, but that his taxes will go up from 36% to 39%. “I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut,” Obama explained. The man wasn’t convinced, telling Obama that he has been a plumber for 15 years and doesn’t believe that he should be taxed more. After explaining that the tax rate would be the same as under Bill Clinton and that 95% of Americans make less than $250,000, Obama made one last pitch to the voter. “I’m gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they’ve been working hard and I appreciate that – I just want to make sure they’re paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts,” Obama said. “It’s not that I want to punish your success – I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got a chance at success too.” Nothing like working your but off so that the people behind you don't have too! I love the USA

[fatman 1]

When did this take place?Not sure why McCain and his campaign are not making this type of stuff more well known.

[85suited 0]

Sunday I believe

[neretva 0]

When did this take place?Not sure why McCain and his campaign are not making this type of stuff more well known.

Well, given the average American voter is as dumb as a rock and is perfectly happy to vote for someone who supports aggressive redistribution of wealth, a McCain emphasis on a critical economic issue would probably be a complete waste of time.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Have you not been alive for the past 15 months? Were you not aware of Obama's tax plan? What's the big deal?

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Have you not been alive for the past 15 months? Were you not aware of Obama's tax plan? What's the big deal?

Communism, Yorke. Thats the big deal here, Communism.

[85suited 0]

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Have you not been alive for the past 15 months? Were you not aware of Obama's tax plan? What's the big deal?

Most Americans have no idea what each candidate stands for....sadly

[Billionaire 0]

Wall Street Journal: Opinion Monday, October 13, 2008Obama's 95% IllusionIt depends on what the meaning of 'tax cut' is.One of Barack Obama's most potent campaign claims is that he'll cut taxes for no less than 95% of "working families." He's even promising to cut taxes enough that the government's tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% -- which is lower than it is today.It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:- A $500 tax credit ($1,000 a couple) to "make work pay" that phases out at income of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 per couple.- A $4,000 tax credit for college tuition.- A 10% mortgage interest tax credit (on top of the existing mortgage interest deduction and other housing subsidies).- A "savings" tax credit of 50% up to $1,000.- An expansion of the earned-income tax credit that would allow single workers to receive as much as $555 a year, up from $175 now, and give these workers up to $1,110 if they are paying child support.- A child care credit of 50% up to $6,000 of expenses a year.- A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS.The total annual expenditures on refundable "tax credits" would rise over the next 10 years by $647 billion to $1.054 trillion, according to the Tax Policy Center. This means that the tax-credit welfare state would soon cost four times actual cash welfare. By redefining such income payments as "tax credits," the Obama campaign also redefines them away as a tax share of GDP. Presto, the federal tax burden looks much smaller than it really is.The political left defends "refundability" on grounds that these payments help to offset the payroll tax. And that was at least plausible when the only major refundable credit was the earned-income tax credit. Taken together, however, these tax credit payments would exceed payroll levies for most low-income workers.It is also true that John McCain proposes a refundable tax credit -- his $5,000 to help individuals buy health insurance. We've written before that we prefer a tax deduction for individual health care, rather than a credit. But the big difference with Mr. Obama is that Mr. McCain's proposal replaces the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance that individuals don't now receive if they buy on their own. It merely changes the nature of the tax subsidy; it doesn't create a new one.There's another catch: Because Mr. Obama's tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, they impose a huge "marginal" tax rate increase on low-income workers. The marginal tax rate refers to the rate on the next dollar of income earned. As the nearby chart illustrates, the marginal rate for millions of low- and middle-income workers would spike as they earn more income.Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job. As public policy, this is contradictory. The tax credits are sold in the name of "making work pay," but in practice they can be a disincentive to working harder, especially if you're a lower-income couple getting raises of $1,000 or $2,000 a year. One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.

[hblask 1]

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Have you not been alive for the past 15 months? Were you not aware of Obama's tax plan? What's the big deal?

I think the reason it's getting attention is because a plumber is not America's version of "rich white guy who needs to be taxed more". When Obama promises tax cuts to the middle class, people picture the plumbers, the construction workers, the bus drivers, etc, getting tax cuts. Instead it turns out they are getting tax increases, suddenly his magic mathematically-impossible promises don't sell so well.But it's not a "big deal" in that most Obama supporters lack even the vaguest comprehension of economics, so it won't change anyone's mind. Or, if they do understand economics, they don't care because they think they will be on the net gain side rather than the net loss side.That post-election hangover is gonna hurt.

[85suited 0]

One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.

McCain is inept at debating...

[Sheiky 0]

I think the reason it's getting attention is because a plumber is not America's version of "rich white guy who needs to be taxed more". When Obama promises tax cuts to the middle class, people picture the plumbers, the construction workers, the bus drivers, etc, getting tax cuts. Instead it turns out they are getting tax increases, suddenly his magic mathematically-impossible promises don't sell so well.But it's not a "big deal" in that most Obama supporters lack even the vaguest comprehension of economics, so it won't change anyone's mind. Or, if they do understand economics, they don't care because they think they will be on the net gain side rather than the net loss side.That post-election hangover is gonna hurt.

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...economic-plans/http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstate...ory_id=12342127

[hblask 1]

<a href="http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/nber-economists-on-the-candidates-economic-plans/" target="_blank">http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...economic-plans/</a><a href="http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12342127" target="_blank">http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstate...ory_id=12342127</a><img src="http://media.economist.com/images/20081004/CUS955.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

So people who think they know how to run the decisions of 300,000,000 others think that it's a good idea to vote for someone who thinks that the president knows how to run the decisions of 300,000,000 others? Call me surprised.OK, Serious response:McCain sucks, too, so choosing between the lesser of two evils doesn't really demonstrate a lot. Neither candidate has a cohesive position that has a chance in hell of working in the real world. The second article you linked points out some interesting explanations.But none of that detracts from my point: people who think the govt can give them something for nothing (i.e., Obama supporters) do not understand economics. And yes, Obama supporters are more guilty of this particular type of wishful thinking than McCain supporters, by a wide margin.

[irishguy 14]

One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.

How has it gone unanswered? At least once a night I see a McCain ad blasting Obama as wanting to raise all taxes (ALL may not be used but certainly is the conotation) this is as much of an illusion as Obama's cut 95% ads. IMO both platforms are weak and regardless of who wins I'd expect taxes to go up.

[85suited 0]

How has it gone unanswered?

OK, your right.. McCain answers the statement weakly, just like he has failed to link Fannie/Freddie disaster to the Democrats..If the situation were reversed Obama would be hammering him.....Obama is way better than McCain on the stump IMO... He has fooled them all pretty good...

[copernicus 0]

How has it gone unanswered? At least once a night I see a McCain ad blasting Obama as wanting to raise all taxes (ALL may not be used but certainly is the conotation) this is as much of an illusion as Obama's cut 95% ads. IMO both platforms are weak and regardless of who wins I'd expect taxes to go up.

Its not an illusion. Everyones taxes will go up if Obama balances his spending plans with tax increases, as he claims he is able to do.

[JustDoIt 10]

“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the man asked. Obama responded by telling the voter that his business would get a 50% tax credit for health care, but that his taxes will go up from 36% to 39%. “I want to give all these folks who are bus drivers, teachers, auto workers who make less, I want to give them a tax cut,” Obama explained. The man wasn’t convinced, telling Obama that he has been a plumber for 15 years and doesn’t believe that he should be taxed more. After explaining that the tax rate would be the same as under Bill Clinton and that 95% of Americans make less than $250,000, Obama made one last pitch to the voter. “I’m gonna cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need and for the 5% of the folks who are doing very well - even though they’ve been working hard and I appreciate that – I just want to make sure they’re paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts,” Obama said. “It’s not that I want to punish your success – I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got a chance at success too.” Nothing like working your but off so that the people behind you don't have too! I love the USA

Obama to Plumber "just want to spread the wealth around"videohttp://www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153

[strategy 4]

Its not an illusion. Everyones taxes will go up if Obama balances his spending plans with tax increases, as he claims he is able to do.

he's claiming to be able to balance his plans with spending cuts in a variety of areas. here's hoping we finally see a sane level of military spending.

[irishguy 14]

Its not an illusion. Everyones taxes will go up if Obama balances his spending plans with tax increases, as he claims he is able to do.

What he said->

he's claiming to be able to balance his plans with spending cuts in a variety of areas. here's hoping we finally see a sane level of military spending.

and this

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Have you not been alive for the past 15 months? Were you not aware of Obama's tax plan? What's the big deal?

Agreed. Why the shock? This is a pretty commonly understood democratic thought.Nothing like working your but off so that the people behind you don't have too! I love the USA Its not about taking from those that have worked hard and giving to lazy poor people. Here is a shocking thing lots of poor people work just as hard as many rich people but often didn't start off on an even playing field.

[Sheiky 0]

Its not about taking from those that have worked hard and giving to lazy poor people. Here is a shocking thing lots of poor people work just as hard as many rich people but often didn't start off on an even playing field.

Lies!!!!!!

[Sal Paradise 57]

Its not about taking from those that have worked hard and giving to lazy poor people. Here is a shocking thing lots of poor people work just as hard as many rich people but often didn't start off on an even playing field.

boo fucking hoo

[El Guapo 8]

boo fucking hoo

See liberals, this is coming from a guy who could use a hand out or seven.

[nutzbuster 7]

Classic re-distribution bullshit.Has never worked and never will. Everyone gets screwed in the long run, but at least the Libs will feel good about it all the way down.so retarded.This mindset led us where we are now with the economy. Give everyone a chance to buy a home, even if they have no way in hell of paying the loan. Give them all a chance...if you don't you are a RACIST/ELITIST/SELFISH/UNCARING/MEAN/ etc...fill in the blank.:just puked again at the thought of it all face:

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Classic re-distribution bullshit.Has never worked and never will. Everyone gets screwed in the long run, but at least the Libs will feel good about it all the way down.so retarded.This mindset led us where we are now with the economy. Give everyone a chance to buy a home, even if they have no way in hell of paying the loan. Give them all a chance...if you don't you are a RACIST/ELITIST/SELFISH/UNCARING/MEAN/ etc...fill in the blank.:just puked again at the thought of it all face:

Relax.Take a deep breath.Realize that progressive tax plans have been around since Lincoln and are supported by both parties.Progressive tax plans have nothing to do with the housing crisis. No matter how angry you get, that will never be true.Maybe take some pepto-bismol. That'll help with the vomiting.

[CaneBrain 95]

Its not an illusion. Everyones taxes will go up if Obama balances his spending plans with tax increases, as he claims he is able to do.

You should know that candidates promise X number of spending programs to appease people and then ditch the ones they can get away with ditching. Neither McCain nor Obama could possibly accomplish all they say they will.

[Loismustdie 0]

Relax.Take a deep breath.Realize that progressive tax plans have been around since Lincoln and are supported by both parties.Progressive tax plans have nothing to do with the housing crisis. No matter how angry you get, that will never be true.Maybe take some pepto-bismol. That'll help with the vomiting.

Yeah, this is wrong in so many ways. You smart guys are really giving me pause lately.