13 replies to this topic

[DonkSlayer]

Assume no reads. Assume we have opened for at least 4x the bb with AA from EP/MP and was flat-called by an opponent skilled between unk and good. We lead or c/r a raggy board.We are reraised allin. How many bb's are we willing to risk? Discuss.

[PrtyPSux]

DonkSlayer, on Monday, October 6th, 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

Assume no reads. Assume we have opened for at least 4x the bb with AA from EP/MP and was flat-called by an opponent skilled between unk and good. We lead or c/r a raggy board.We are reraised allin. How many bb's are we willing to risk? Discuss.

that's a bit of a broad question no?I would say 115 bb's...

[trystero]

I'd cap it at 150 but it's arbitrary I knowDefinitely the 100 I sat down with.

[mtdesmoines]

DonkSlayer, on Monday, October 6th, 2008, 4:34 PM, said:

Assume no reads. Assume we have opened for at least 4x the bb with AA from EP/MP and was flat-called by an opponent skilled between unk and good. We lead or c/r a raggy board.We are reraised allin. How many bb's are we willing to risk? Discuss.

around a buy in or 100 BBs whatever. we need reads to stack off with one pair.

[NoBBiR]

I just don't fold aces for 100bbs on pretty much every unpaired flop without a read.101bb and I'll start to think about it.

[krup24]

100-120

[CobaltBlue]

DonkSlayer, on Monday, October 6th, 2008, 8:34 PM, said:

Assume no reads. Assume we have opened for at least 4x the bb with AA from EP/MP and was flat-called by an opponent skilled between unk and good. We lead or c/r a raggy board.We are reraised allin. How many bb's are we willing to risk? Discuss.

Read "Professional No Limit Hold 'Em".Summarizing:If opponent is loose, we can typically stack off when the relative stack is ~94bb to start.If opponent is average, we can usually stack off when the relative stack is ~58bb to start.If opponent is tight, we can stack off when the relative stack is ~22bb to start.So a little under 100 should be your upper range most of the time, but it can get adjusted upwards in some cases.

[SGFULTON83]

Assuming no reads <100 BB's I'm there and over that gets me nervous but I still think I go with it.

[NoBBiR]

CobaltBlue, on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008, 7:54 AM, said:

Read "Professional No Limit Hold 'Em".Summarizing:If opponent is loose, we can typically stack off when the relative stack is ~94bb to start.If opponent is average, we can usually stack off when the relative stack is ~58bb to start.If opponent is tight, we can stack off when the relative stack is ~22bb to start.So a little under 100 should be your upper range most of the time, but it can get adjusted upwards in some cases.

Does he make this formulaic in some way, or is it just his opinion?

[CobaltBlue]

NoBBiR, on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008, 2:58 PM, said:

Does he make this formulaic in some way, or is it just his opinion?

It's related to Stack-Pot-Ratios (SPR), which is the size of the smallest stack in relation to the pot after all of the pre-flop betting is complete. The premise is that a tight opponent is only likely to put in a certain amount of action when you've got him beat with an overpair, whereas a loose opponent will put in more.

[trystero]

Those numbers seem low. We're only supposed to be in 100 bbs with AA to the loosest of opponents ? Is the author already assuming a dry board ?

[mtdesmoines]

trystero, on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

Those numbers seem low. We're only supposed to be in 100 bbs with AA to the loosest of opponents ? Is the author already assuming a dry board ?

I think the dry boards are more dangerous unless we've closed action by flat-calling a single villain's raise pre.

[DonkSlayer]

mtdesmoines, on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008, 3:20 PM, said:

I think the dry boards are more dangerous unless we've closed action by flat-calling a single villain's raise pre.

I concur. And in the example, I was trying to relate the board is indeed very dry.

[CobaltBlue]

trystero, on Tuesday, October 7th, 2008, 3:10 PM, said:

Those numbers seem low. We're only supposed to be in 100 bbs with AA to the loosest of opponents ? Is the author already assuming a dry board ?

Well, with AA, it may get adjusted up slightly. That's kind of the SPR's (10, 6, 2) for "big overpairs". For TPTK hands, you need slightly lower numbers. The point is essentially that if there's $9 in the pot pre-flop (assuming a .50/1 game) and you and your opponent have roughly $117 left going into the flop, you're in a somewhat tough spot. You're probably not going to be able to get all of the money in the pot when you're significantly ahead and you risk giving too much action when you're behind. Your opponent can really make your life a pain on a lot of boards, especially if he's in position.