9553 replies to this topic

[trystero]

today's rakeback day, so Ninja's probably given up on his shortstacking.fwiw Fergusonrulz

[Stupidhead]

I certainly don't reccommend raising 2.5x at the micros. But at my limits and the wide range of hands I raise from the CO and button, raising 2.5x allows me to lose less when getting 3bet light, and allows for more post flop play since the stack to pot ratio is greater. If someone in the blinds is a mega fish that is calling pre a ton and then check-folding most flops, my raise size is certainly gonna increase pre.

[KosinTrouble]

trystero, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 12:40 PM, said:

stoopid is the nuts so he has to have a good reason. I can see that 2.5x would minimize the effects of being light 3-bet in aggro 6max games.Ferguson wrote about varying raise sizes like 18 years ago...I doubt anything he said back then applies to today's poker climate.

what about betting 2.5x with the hope of being reraised.. Say you are UTG with AA/KK, you raise 2.5x knowing or hoping someone will reraise then you can 4bet... Would that make the 2.5x raise viable?Kosin Trouble

[Nashtak]

beware the feral cow packs. they hunger.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.01/$0.02 - 9 playersButton: $1.72 SB: $2.03 BB: $6.06 UTG: $0.64 UTG+1: $2.34 MP: $0.67 MP2: $2.12 HJ: $2.00 CO: $1.02 (Hero)Preflop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with (9 players)4 folds, HJ raises to $0.04, Hero raises to $0.18, 3 folds, HJ raises to $2, and is all in, Hero foldsHJ won $0.39(Rake: $0)

[KingJames]

3 bet/folding AK for 50bb is criminal

[trystero]

it is in some parts of America. lucky for you you're in Canada.you cannot fold AK there...

[KosinTrouble]

I think I would fold too, again its the penny tables, so the person that went all in is on KK or AA 90% of the time. But without HUD stats its hard to say...Would it have matttered if the AK was suited?Kosin Troubleand btw he is from Quebec... and they are only partially part of Canada

[Ninja Ace]

KingJames, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 10:47 AM, said:

UTG- 4xHJ- 3.5xCO- 3.5xBTN- 3xShould I rework this? Like 3.5x UTG and HJ and 3x CO and BTN?

This is backwards... if you're varying range sizes by position they should increase as your position improves. Also I tried a session out with the 3x as standard and honestly not much changes about the play. Imma keep up so I get a decent sample size at it, but my thinking is that since my red line is so high I'd prefer the 4x just bc since I win a majority of the pots postflop its an extra bet I'm taking in... Although there's obv something to be said about the difference not committing me as hard in later streets which is why I want a larger sample.

[Ninja Ace]

trystero, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 11:40 AM, said:

stoopid is the nuts so he has to have a good reason. I can see that 2.5x would minimize the effects of being light 3-bet in aggro 6max games.

Your choice of standard open size should be more of a reflection of what you want to do postflop rather than the odds you'll be laid or laying pre.

[trystero]

Quote

think I would fold too, again its the penny tables, so the person that went all in is on KK or AA 90% of the time. But without HUD stats its hard to say...Would it have matttered if the AK was suited?Kosin Troubleand btw he is from Quebec... and they are only partially part of Canada

sarcasm ? can't tell.when you're at the penny tables a pf shove is NOT kk+ 90% or even close to it. for one when you're holding ak it's less likely that someone's holding kk/aa because you're blocking them. it's more likely that you both have the same hand. second a player is capable of shoving way worse than kk+....at the least you have to include jj/qq and then throw in the oddball aq/aj/kq and it's an easy easy call.

[Ninja Ace]

Although the minraise/jam line is incredistrong by fish and you're also playing FR... you can't be folding this due to your stack size. 100BB deep it's a pretty easy fold

[Nashtak]

KosinTrouble, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 3:43 PM, said:

I think I would fold too, again its the penny tables, so the person that went all in is on KK or AA 90% of the time. But without HUD stats its hard to say...Would it have matttered if the AK was suited?Kosin Troubleand btw he is from Quebec... and they are only partially part of Canada

I voted No in 1995PS: Villain was something like 10/9 if not lower, but on a really short range of hands (below 20)PSS: I lied. I couldn't vote back in 95.

[Ninja Ace]

KosinTrouble, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 12:05 PM, said:

what about betting 2.5x with the hope of being reraised.. Say you are UTG with AA/KK, you raise 2.5x knowing or hoping someone will reraise then you can 4bet... Would that make the 2.5x raise viable?Kosin Trouble

Varying raise sizes by hand strength is incredibly bad. Also, when you open to a standard size all the time 99% of players won't repop based on the size of your open. So opening low in hopes of getting 4bet value is pretty terrible. The only reason I would ever choose a 2.5x open is if I liked to take a lot of pots to showdown and I small balled and such

[KosinTrouble]

trystero, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 1:47 PM, said:

sarcasm ? can't tell.when you're at the penny tables a pf shove is NOT kk+ 90% or even close to it. for one when you're holding ak it's less likely that someone's holding kk/aa because you're blocking them. it's more likely that you both have the same hand. second a player is capable of shoving way worse than kk+....at the least you have to include jj/qq and then throw in the oddball aq/aj/kq and it's an easy easy call.

Sorry let me take my thinking further...The person raised .02, so , it is a lets bet .02 and see if anyone folds or raises. If they raise I fold, if they call I keep betting .02 till they raise or fold.orit is a lets bet .02 because I am HUGE and if anyone raises I will go all in.Then again what you say is correct, I have folded Ak only to see two others on with 10's the other with AJ and the AJ wins.... That makes me cry.hmmm crap, the more I think as I am writing this my little voice is saying... you're an idiot, how many times have you seen all-ins when no one has AA/KK/AK, and sadly I am saying quite frequently... So yes you probably are correct, unless its one of the regular 11/5 nits it probably should be a call.Kosin Trouble

[KosinTrouble]

Ninja Ace, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 1:55 PM, said:

Varying raise sizes by hand strength is incredibly bad. Also, when you open to a standard size all the time 99% of players won't repop based on the size of your open. So opening low in hopes of getting 4bet value is pretty terrible. The only reason I would ever choose a 2.5x open is if I liked to take a lot of pots to showdown and I small balled and such

I think you just pointed out a big flaw for me then. i find with me that if its just a regular drawing hand I will open to 3-4bb depending on position. If I have a strong hand JJ+ i open at least 5bb. Now after I have been at a table for a bit I change it up, so I bet 5bb on a draw hand, bet 3bb on a JJ+ hand ect, but I do find myself going back to betting bigger with better hands... but would it be better to just raise 4bb standard accross the board so that they never know what I have?what I always worry about is that the bb will call my 3bb raise with a crap hand and usually gets 2pair or somethign to beat me. Should I not be worrying about that?Kosin Trouble

[KingJames]

Ninja Ace, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 1:45 PM, said:

This is backwards... if you're varying range sizes by position they should increase as your position improves.

Why?

[trystero]

Quote

hmmm crap, the more I think as I am writing this my little voice is saying... you're an idiot, how many times have you seen all-ins when no one has AA/KK/AK, and sadly I am saying quite frequently... So yes you probably are correct, unless its one of the regular 11/5 nits it probably should be a call.

I was posting about this in another thread, that forums/videos can be detrimental to your winrate at the stakes you play. While getting a poker education is great, it's often provided by players who are at a higher level, financially and cognitively (in regard to poker...poker players as a group don't strike me as all that intelligent). Like in this thread, Stupidhead is talking about varying raise sizes preflop based on position. He's recommending that late position opens should be 2.5x. Basically no one here should listen to him. Not because what he says is bad (he's a winner at 1/2nlhe), but because it just doesn't apply to the stakes we all play. On the one hand poker ed. tools like forums can prepare you for what to expect as you move up, but that preparation can prevent you from crushing your current level. You begin to play hands like you would against phantom opponents, not those at your actual limit...Now if we look at 2nl, you're going to find lots of guys who don't understand the basics of poker, and they'll go all-in pf with a bunch of hands. It doesn't need to be AA/KK. As you move up, you'll find fewer players who'll do this...

[Ninja Ace]

KingJames, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 1:06 PM, said:

Why?

Because even though your range from UTG is strong, bloating the pot OOP is going to smash you in the long run when you find yourself capable of actually folding overpairs in the right spots. Also, you heighten your chance of multiple callers making your PF strong hand not nearly as strong postflop with a much bigger pot.And if you look at your position stats I'm sure you see a trend of profit increasing as you approach the button... that's for a reason... position is incredibly valuable... so if you're varying value bet your position.

[KingJames]

Yeah, position is important. So by raising more up front, we discourage calls from people who have position on us and hope to play a HU pot against one of the blinds.If we get called and we're oop after raising utg, our range is strong, and we raised an amount where villains shouldn't be calling with ATC... We are able to better define their range, and play better imo

[KosinTrouble]

trystero, on Friday, February 26th, 2010, 2:09 PM, said:

I was posting about this in another thread, that forums/videos can be detrimental to your winrate at the stakes you play. While getting a poker education is great, it's often provided by players who are at a higher level, financially and cognitively (in regard to poker...poker players as a group don't strike me as all that intelligent). Like in this thread, Stupidhead is talking about varying raise sizes preflop based on position. He's recommending that late position opens should be 2.5x. Basically no one here should listen to him. Not because what he says is bad (he's a winner at 1/2nlhe), but because it just doesn't apply to the stakes we all play. On the one hand poker ed. tools like forums can prepare you for what to expect as you move up, but that preparation can prevent you from crushing your current level. You begin to play hands like you would against phantom opponents, not those at your actual limit...Now if we look at 2nl, you're going to find lots of guys who don't understand the basics of poker, and they'll go all-in pf with a bunch of hands. It doesn't need to be AA/KK. As you move up, you'll find fewer players who'll do this...

Which goes back to the statement of Sklansky.... What level does your opponent play at and play accordingly... Against weak players the best strategy is to play your cards in a basic, straightforward way.....Kosin Trouble