314 replies to this topic

[Dubey]

Fenxis, on 03 April 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

This. I'm not sure Ottawa bought high but we'll see, the pessimist says the bubble has burst on Conacher already.

A realist would say that ben Bishop has average AHL stats and below average NHL stats in every season except this one, a season where every other goalie on the team also has ridiculously inflated stats.

A realist would also note that point per game scoring by 20 year old players in the AHL historically translates very well to NHL success, and that we shouldn't be judging a 21 year old on a 15 game slump.



I think this will end up being a huge win for Ottawa.

Bishop might be good, but he has never carried a large workload in the NHL, and he could just as easily fall off a cliff ala Anders Lindback when exposed to Tampa's defensive system. Conacher is unproven as well, but I believe his risk is way lower.

[serge]

Also another realist can say Conacher played with Stamkos,St Louis and Lecavalier mostly...

http://www.leftwingl...&gametype=ALL#A

[Fenxis]

Dubey, on 04 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

A realist would say that ben Bishop has average AHL stats and below average NHL stats in every season except this one, a season where every other goalie on the team also has ridiculously inflated stats.

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=87909

There's no doubt that Bishop has put up significantly better numbers in Ottawa / Binghamton than the StLouis organization; so I guess the question is that a product of backstopping the Sens or is he grown into his body? tbh his save % / track record seems to be pretty comparable to a certain Edmonton goalie...

oth there's talk that Bishop has a pretty big 5-hole weakness that teams are starting to figure out...

[MapleLeafpoker]

The shine off the Yzerman regime is beginning to wear off. He did some things that I loved, but now he's doing some things I just dont understand.

I like Bishop, but if this team had their crap together, they would have traded for Bishop last year, when Tampa was still dying for gtd, and they would have only surrendered a 2nd round pick. Instead, they gave up like 2 2nd's and a 3rd for LIndback (who I also like) and then went out and got another "possible" starter.

On the other hand, I think Conacher is a little over hyped, but if I were Tampa, I would tried to trade him for more then Bishop.

Am I the only one who thinks Tampa should be going after Luongo? Or does Roberto want no part of Tampa? With a team that has Lecavalier, St.Louis, Malone....there is another 2-3yr window for a possible Cup run, if the D picks up and the young fwds develop. They have Vasilevski, get a Luongo type to play for 3-4 years, and see how good you do.

[Zach6668]

Dubey, on 04 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

A realist would say that ben Bishop has average AHL stats and below average NHL stats in every season except this one, a season where every other goalie on the team also has ridiculously inflated stats.

A realist would also note that point per game scoring by 20 year old players in the AHL historically translates very well to NHL success, and that we shouldn't be judging a 21 year old on a 15 game slump.



I think this will end up being a huge win for Ottawa.

Bishop might be good, but he has never carried a large workload in the NHL, and he could just as easily fall off a cliff ala Anders Lindback when exposed to Tampa's defensive system. Conacher is unproven as well, but I believe his risk is way lower.

Isn't Conacher 23?

[serge]

MapleLeafpoker, on 04 April 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

The shine off the Yzerman regime is beginning to wear off. He did some things that I loved, but now he's doing some things I just dont understand.

I like Bishop, but if this team had their crap together, they would have traded for Bishop last year, when Tampa was still dying for gtd, and they would have only surrendered a 2nd round pick. Instead, they gave up like 2 2nd's and a 3rd for LIndback (who I also like) and then went out and got another "possible" starter.

On the other hand, I think Conacher is a little over hyped, but if I were Tampa, I would tried to trade him for more then Bishop.

Am I the only one who thinks Tampa should be going after Luongo? Or does Roberto want no part of Tampa? With a team that has Lecavalier, St.Louis, Malone....there is another 2-3yr window for a possible Cup run, if the D picks up and the young fwds develop. They have Vasilevski, get a Luongo type to play for 3-4 years, and see how good you do.

I dont think Tampa can take on Luongo salary..Not for cap reasons obviously but for financial reasons.

If the mega rich Leafs declined the trade I am sure it will be very hard for Luongo to go anywhere.

Ben Scrivens and 2 second round picks is not a huge price to pay for Luongo..

[serge]

oh and to add after watching him talk yesterday I am fairly confident Roberto would take a trade to ANY team in the NHL..Even Calgary

[Dubey]

Fenxis, on 04 April 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=87909

There's no doubt that Bishop has put up significantly better numbers in Ottawa / Binghamton than the StLouis organization; so I guess the question is that a product of backstopping the Sens or is he grown into his body? tbh his save % / track record seems to be pretty comparable to a certain Edmonton goalie...

oth there's talk that Bishop has a pretty big 5-hole weakness that teams are starting to figure out...

Definitely a chance that he is growing into his body and that the numbers are legit. I just don't think that we have enough info on him yet to be valuing him at a good young forward and a pick. Now, I checked and Zach is right, COnacher is 23, so maybe I am overvaluing him a bit.



As for comparing to Devan, yeah, I think they are fairly comparable, numbers wise, though Bishops are a lot more sporadic. When you look at overall NHL and AHL numbers, I suspect they are pretty close, though Devan's progression has been a lot more linear. I think he posted .895/.905/.915 or so in his 3 AHL seasons, then .895/.915/.915/.920 so far in 4 NHL seasons, where as Bishop was .908/.895/.901/.928/.909/.928 in the AHL, (edit, hockeydb is confusing to read, looking at NHL.com, his progression seems a bit more linear) His NHL numbers jump all over the map but still only about a 40 game sample size in total.



A lot of rambling, but all I'm saying, is there isn't a statistically significant sample size to judge Bishop yet, and goalies are notoriously hard to predict, especially when switching organizations. I, personally wouldn't advocate spending assets on an unproven 26 year old goalie. I would have said the same thing about my brother 2 years ago. he was 24 then but had a similar NHL workload to Bishop now.

[serge]

What is the goaltending situation in Edmonton behind Devan?

Rumour was Edmonton tried heavily to get Bishop.

I am assuming they will let Khabibulin go when he is a UFA this summer.

I was a little surprised his name never came up for the Leafs..He is a lower risk option to Kiprusoff..Has a great playoff pedigree..Stanley Cup Champion..

[Dubey]

Edmonton has nobody in the pipeline. Makes total sense to go after Bishop for them.


Olivier Roy is 21 and still getting his feet wet in the AHL with decent results, but he is years away. Yann Danis is playing in the AHL, and could step in as a backup if somebody got injured, but he is 32 and not getting any better. Tyler Bunz had a great couple WHL seasons but is now struggling heavily in the ECHL as a 21 year old.


They are horribly exposed if Devan were to have a long term injury.

[serge]

Was just looking at Tampa Bay s Cap situation..Its really bad..

If they cant win with this core of players, they dont have much room to acquire players..They are committed a lot of players , for a very long time.

The Lecavalier contract is going to look worse and worse as the years go on.

Maybe a deal that would make sense is Lecavalier for Luongo...

[Zach6668]

They have young guys coming up, they're going to try to count on them. Lots of them are ready to make the jump to, at least, be competitive. Add in Stamkos, St. Louis, Vinny, Malone, etc, they seem to have a decent mix. They can be back in the playoffs.

[serge]

Zach6668, on 04 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They have young guys coming up, they're going to try to count on them. Lots of them are ready to make the jump to, at least, be competitive. Add in Stamkos, St. Louis, Vinny, Malone, etc, they seem to have a decent mix. They can be back in the playoffs.

They have left themselves no room..They are stuck with the core..In 2014-2015...That is two years from now, they have $50 million committed to 11 players..Great for a team that is competing for Cups..Not so great for a potential lottery team.

[MapleLeafpoker]

serge, on 04 April 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

They have left themselves no room..They are stuck with the core..In 2014-2015...That is two years from now, they have $50 million committed to 11 players..Great for a team that is competing for Cups..Not so great for a potential lottery team.

Of the 50, 3.6 is to Ohlund who will essentially retire and number will come off, and another 4.5 is to Malone, who is probably a buyout candidate, or could be moved maybe.
Anyway, thats 8mill right there, leaving them at least 22 millions to add to a pretty good core, though they will need to sign some guys who might have good yrs next year.
I

[digitalmonkey]

They should consider buying out Lecavalier.