rdtedm 0 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Opponent just sat.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A 1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero ??? Link to post Share on other sites
cubsfan44 0 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Opponent just sat.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A 1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero ???At 10nl I believe this is a fold Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 ^|yes Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 pssh...he just sat it's a shove if that's his first hand for sure. Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 At 10nl I believe this is a foldCompared to what limit being a call?First hand, already being up a buy in, I'm sticking him in. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Compared to what limit being a call?First hand, already being up a buy in, I'm sticking him in. Whatttttttt? What does being up a buyin have to do with anything?As to the first statement, I'd venture a guess and say this becomes a call at around 100nl or so where people balance their 4bet/shove ranges a lot more by doing it lighter. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 It's not a fold.... push him.Call at the least. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 People don't 4bet light at $10NL but a lot of players will get it all in pf with something like AJ or 88 thinking they have the best hand. I think I fold the first time and if I see him 4 bet a couple of times in the next few orbits, try and get it in with him pf a bit lighter than usual. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Honestly, I have no idea how I would ever fold this. I snap put him in without a read at 10nl where people play like morons every possible second they get. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Honestly, I have no idea how I would ever fold this. I snap put him in without a read at 10nl where people play like morons every possible second they get.As much as I enjoy sweeping generalisations. You're probably flipping at best 98% of the time here Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 As much as I enjoy sweeping generalisations. You're probably flipping at best 98% of the time hereIf you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus. Link to post Share on other sites
rdtedm 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 I didn't really consider folding with no reads.. Is that bad? Here's how the action played out:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A 1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.40Flop: ($7.15) 8 , Q , A (2 players)MP bets $3.50, Hero ...Once again, I think folding here is incorrect. Do I flat or shove the flop? What's a reasonable range for villain? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Call at the least.calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold. Link to post Share on other sites
rdtedm 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.Why? Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Why?it is large a % of your stack to just smooth call Link to post Share on other sites
SeattlePoker 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.Once you are to this point, shoving or calling is fine. You basically have your dream flop, and if you're beat right now (i.e. he hit a set or even two pair) you still have a ton of outs with the club draw. More likely he has nothing and you've got him drawing almost dead. And if you just call, he'll probably give you his last $3 on the turn. If you shove, you might not get that from him. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 If you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus.Funny, I think the opposite - reads would be necessary for me to consider putting him all in here. Why put yourself in that position against a complete unknown? Because he could be drunk? The 4-bet is incredibly strong here. Notice that villain bought in for the full amount, which suggests he's not a crazed hit-and-run type of player - those guys usually buy in for a small amount and then get it in with a wide range. I would be completely shocked if his range was anything wider than QQ-AA/AK. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 calling is pretty horrible IMO shove or fold.Well... I said shove him or at least call... fold isn't something I would do here.I don't think shove or fold are the best options... 1) Shove2) Call3) FoldIMO Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well... I said shove him or at least call... fold isn't something I would do here.I don't think shove or fold are the best options... 1) Shove2) Call3) FoldIMOyeah I think there is only one play really here, IMO and that is to shove, without a read. If you knew he was a nit you could fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Whatttttttt? What does being up a buyin have to do with anything?As to the first statement, I'd venture a guess and say this becomes a call at around 100nl or so where people balance their 4bet/shove ranges a lot more by doing it lighter.There's a fair few players i'd continue against here at $25NL, at $50NL I would say folding would probably be a clear last as standard. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Snap ship. I never fold something this huge at 10nl Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 To the original question PF: shoveTo the question on the flop: shoveOMG you nits. really. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 there's really no folding w/ that flop that's the nut flop for you. Again, the guy sat and 4 bet in his first lap at the table, you're only dead to aa so it's a snap shove pre imo, this is his first hand and I came up through 10nl, I saw guys sit and decide to just keep raising their first few hands.On the flop I prefer shoving to calling, but understand the merit of a flat. IMO get it in. Link to post Share on other sites
Giggidy 0 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 To the original question PF: shoveTo the question on the flop: shove Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 If you're flipping 98% of the time, then it's a snap shove. If he ever folds a pair 99+ when you shove then shoving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>folding/calling.While I agree that I have rarely run into incompetent normal sized 4-bettors at 10nl, folding still seems super weak. We have no idea what this guy is doing, he could be drunk and laughing with his friends 4betting you with 72o. I really feel like reads would be necessary to dump this, especially nonchalantly like it seems is the consensus.Flipping at best 98% of the timeI didn't really consider folding with no reads.. Is that bad? Here's how the action played out:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG ($7.50)MP ($10)Hero (Button) ($20.30)SB ($10.20)BB ($14.20)Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A 1 fold, MP raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, MP raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.40Flop: ($7.15) 8 , Q , A (2 players)MP bets $3.50, Hero ...Once again, I think folding here is incorrect. Do I flat or shove the flop? What's a reasonable range for villain?This is a turbo fist-pump shove once we hit out dream flop. Link to post Share on other sites
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