Standard Shove?

[starfit 0]

Standard or is there some way I can fold this?And thanks everyone for your imput! I'm trying to keep my topics to a minimum. 2 in 2 days is a lot.Full Tilt Poker Game #23372857629: $3 + $0.30 Tournament (180460254), Table 9 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 01:23:23 ET - 2010/08/26Seat 1: Daring Diamond (24,351)Seat 2: aux123 (51,164)Seat 3: starfit (14,730)Seat 5: spooky522 (80,377)Seat 6: TripsAre4Kids (8,000)Daring Diamond antes 200aux123 antes 200starfit antes 200spooky522 antes 200TripsAre4Kids antes 200aux123 posts the small blind of 800starfit posts the big blind of 1,600The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to starfit [Ad Ks]spooky522 raises to 3,200TripsAre4Kids foldsDaring Diamond raises to 6,400aux123 foldsstarfit raises to 14,530, and is all inspooky522 foldsDaring Diamond calls 8,130starfit shows [Ad Ks]Daring Diamond shows [Kh Kc]*** FLOP *** [7s 2c Qs]*** TURN *** [7s 2c Qs] [9h]*** RIVER *** [7s 2c Qs 9h] [Qh]starfit shows a pair of QueensDaring Diamond shows two pair, Kings and QueensDaring Diamond wins the pot (34,060) with two pair, Kings and Queens*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 34,060 | Rake 0Board: [7s 2c Qs 9h Qh]Seat 1: Daring Diamond (button) showed [Kh Kc] and won (34,060) with two pair, Kings and QueensSeat 2: aux123 (small blind) folded before the FlopSeat 3: starfit (big blind) showed [Ad Ks] and lost with a pair of QueensSeat 5: spooky522 folded before the FlopSeat 6: TripsAre4Kids folded before the Flop

[rrumsey 0]

http://www.handconverter.com/ USE IT PEOPLE! I KEEP HAVING TO CONVERT!ok and here it is:Full Tilt Poker $3 + $0.30 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t800/t1600 Blinds + t200 - 5 players - View hand 889195The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBTN: t24351 M = 7.16SB: t51164 M = 15.05Hero (BB): t14730 M = 4.33UTG: t80377 M = 23.64CO: t8000 M = 2.35Pre Flop: (t3400) Hero is BB with A K UTG raises to t3200, 1 fold, BTN raises to t6400, 1 fold, Hero raises to t14530 all in, 1 fold, BTN calls t8130Flop: (t34060) 7 2 Q Turn: (t34060) 9 River: (t34060) Q Final Pot: t34060BTN shows K K (two pair, Kings and Queens)Hero shows A K (a pair of Queens)BTN wins t34060ok i am going to say something that may make people mad, but i think it is morally incorrect unless you have super soul reads (of which are so freaking rare) to ever fold AK preflop. its just so bad. and in a $3, im going to say, even if you happen to be russ hamilton and know for a fact his cards are in fact AA, i still call!/ stack off! dont fold this hand pre ever! we may debate what to do beyond not folding but dont think that is ever an option. and given the stack sizes what are you waiting for, get that hand in. we just can not shove this hand pre given the stack sizes ( and all the money already in the pot). Unless there is a massive payout structure ICM reason. But even then, i would be hard pressed too ever fold.

[Mills 0]

with an M of just over 4? yea this is a shove. I don't know if i'd go so far as to say i'm never folding in this spot, but certainly not with your stack.

[rbakken2504 0]

yea, you can pretty much never fold this with your M.

[SuperJon 175]

ok i am going to say something that may make people mad, but i think it is morally incorrect unless you have super soul reads (of which are so freaking rare) to ever fold AK preflop. its just so bad. and in a $3, im going to say, even if you happen to be russ hamilton and know for a fact his cards are in fact AA, i still call!/ stack off! dont fold this hand pre ever! we may debate what to do beyond not folding but dont think that is ever an option. and given the stack sizes what are you waiting for, get that hand in. we just can not shove this hand pre given the stack sizes ( and all the money already in the pot). Unless there is a massive payout structure ICM reason. But even then, i would be hard pressed too ever fold.

There are definitely times when it's okay to fold AK preflop, this isn't one of them obviously.

[Fade2241 0]

change the thread title to 'super standard shove'

[Mercury69 3]

Min raise + min re-raise and you guys want to play AK? Know ye that you are behind, probably to both hands. It's a shove, sure, but it's borderline.

[starfit 0]

Min raise + min re-raise and you guys want to play AK? Know ye that you are behind, probably to both hands. It's a shove, sure, but it's borderline.

I only started this thread because I thought it was borderline too. With all the money in the pot and me in the bb I felt it was a call.Does the situation change any being 9 people left with 6 handed tables?

[RakeMyBlind 0]

http://www.handconverter.com/ USE IT PEOPLE! I KEEP HAVING TO CONVERT!

[rrumsey 0]

i dont mind doing it

[TrueAce13 18]

Min raise + min re-raise and you guys want to play AK? Know ye that you are behind, probably to both hands. It's a shove, sure, but it's borderline.

omg nooooooooooo this is horrible advice. I'm sorry. Just horrible. This is a super standard happy to get it in shove. minraise can be an entire range ( minraise my entire range). and the miny 3bet can very easily be Tens to AQ and other stuff like that. Also, given the fact of our stack size, we should be fist pumping to get this in

[cdipierr 0]

omg nooooooooooo this is horrible advice. I'm sorry. Just horrible. This is a super standard happy to get it in shove. minraise can be an entire range ( minraise my entire range). and the miny 3bet can very easily be Tens to AQ and other stuff like that. Also, given the fact of our stack size, we should be fist pumping to get this in

+1 brazillion

[Mercury69 3]

omg nooooooooooo this is horrible advice. I'm sorry. Just horrible. This is a super standard happy to get it in shove. minraise can be an entire range ( minraise my entire range). and the miny 3bet can very easily be Tens to AQ and other stuff like that. Also, given the fact of our stack size, we should be fist pumping to get this in

Well, OK, but how close is it? I mean...what range are you putting these guys on?Min raise is often a fairly high pair that is prepared to shove to an RR or sometimes a low pair trying to use a scare tacticAn RR over the min raise is usually QQ+Is AQ in the mix...Yes, it sure is, but I am DEFINITELY folding AQ in this spot (at least the way I am feeling right now...lol)With an M of 4, maybe it wieghts it towards a shove, but with action occuring and the blinds left to act, I'm thinking AK is BEHIND. Can we at least agree on that?

[cdipierr 0]

With an M of 4, maybe it wieghts it towards a shove, but with action occuring and the blinds left to act, I'm thinking AK is BEHIND. Can we at least agree on that?

It depends if you count 50-50 as "behind". If you really want to argue ranges, people minraise with all sorts of crap, including pretty much any pair. People 3-bet with all sorts of things, including AQ and pairs. It's conceivable to find ourself against something like 99 and JJ or 99 and AQ.That said, it really doesn't matter. Short of a satellite, you should never be folding AK with an M of 4. It's irrelevant to assign ranges.ETA ... and this is purely result oriented, but as it played out, we're 29.6% to win. And we end up getting 2.34:1. This isn't correct odds, but with an M of 4, I'd take it. If the guy turned over QQ instead, then we'd be ecstatic.

[HighwayStar 8]

this is prolly kinda close w/AQ. Not AK.

[Mercury69 3]

K, thanks y'all

[tbrick412 0]

dont see folding as an option here, ever