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Can u actually makemoney playing online?


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#1 koolromeo

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 07:41 AM

i'm no poker veteran, but i understand the game, i play alot, and i know the reason that i win is that i make better decisions than most players. most players i have come across are just happy to play once in a while and they are willing to lose up to $100 when they play. i find this to be true in person and on the computer. now please realize that im not bragging when i say that almost whenever i play in person i leave a winner, maybe not the big winner, but i made money. i have done this pretty much everywhere i have played, and i have played against semi pros to newbies. the only place i cant consistently win is online. i have a very modest goal. i want to win $33 aday which is $1000 a month. i tell this to people that play online and they look at me like im and idiot and tell me stories of winning $1200 in a weak. ive done that too. so i ask them how long they have been playing online, and they say 9 months. so i ask them if they have $9000 in their online account and they always say well no i have $1400. well thats like $5 a day. my point is ive only ever met 1 person that wins consistently on the computer. there is so much dead money online it should be easy pickings but its not. i play all stakes between $1-2 to $5-10 limit to $200 buy in no limit i play both pretty well, but i cant consistently win and i dont know why, and i am begining to wonder if i can win. do u win, and i mean really win consistently. if u do what sites do u play and what type of games. i play on party and ub. i'm looking forward to responses. also if youre good enough to win, im sure you understand why u win, so please pass along any advice u can. i'm looking forward to youre responses.

#2 IBETUWIN

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:12 AM

the problem with most winning or break even live poker players when trying to make the conversion to successful online play is that they arent used to all the distractions that online play provides, eg: checking emails, answering the phone surfing the web, posting to poker forums :D etc. also a problem in the smaller limits is that in all honestly these players will play anything, you just have to adapt your game i find that online when I was playing the smaller limits suite connectors would do you much better that AK or PP, because most times top pair means nothing online, but thats just my two cents, though i think that the fish can be easily taken the distractions are the downfall of most online poker players, master those and you easily on your way to achieving your goals
JUST POOP IT UP ONE TIME

#3 Mashchit

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:16 AM

To answer your question, I think that it is possible to win regularly online and for the sort of amounts that you're looking at - that's 1 big bet an hour at 4-8 limit hold 'em for four hours play a day.I don't do that myself, because I only play tournaments online and live cash games these days, not online cash games. I used to played cash games online before though. I won at some levels, but not at others, which were slightly higher. In retrospect I didn't have sufficient bankroll to ride the storm at these latter levels and to determine whether I was going through a bad phase, but winning long term, or just playing badly and losing accordingly.Following on from that, given that you're playing a range of limit games and no-limit games then your variance is going to be all over the place and that will make it hard to tell how you're really doing. You didn't mention how long you play every day, how long you've played online for and whether you keep records of your play at the different levels. If you don't keep records then it's worth doing so to see what your hourly rate is at each one, and whether you're doing particularly badly at a given format. That, of course, might not mean that you're playing badly, it may be that you just haven't played enough at that level for your underlying hourly rate to come through. You might also be better off choosing just one game, say 3-6 limit, for a while to see how your results pan out.Finally, I think you're wise to ignore the show off's at the tables too. "You can win $1,500 a week" normally means "I won once $1,500 in a week. And then lost $2,000 the week after."Good luck.

#4 bdluss

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:24 AM

Yes you can win online consistently. Yes I have had my share of hot and cold streaks, great weeks and horrible weeks but over the past 18 months I have averaged about $50 a day over that period of time. I play mostly low buy in tournaments, 5,10 20 and 30 ones and play alot of them (usually 3 at a time). I have found that if you have tournament skill you can usually get deep in about 1 in 6 of these tournaments, make to the final table 1 in 15, and win 1 in 60. Now that may not seem like alot of wins, but the reality is this if I win 1 in 60 $5 buy in tournaments here is the $ results, it cost you $330 in entry fees, figure the one you win is worth $900 (typical 600 man entry tournament). Now you actually make more than that as you make 1 in 15 final tables and have a few 2nd, 3rds and so on. So really out of that $330 you make closer to $1200-$1500. So yes you can win at it consistently, as for cash games I dont know for sure as I play these rarely as I am only a mediocre cash game player.

#5 thrasher48

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 09:38 AM

I know exactly what you're saying. I win consistently at the casino playing 3-6 albeit not always a huge amount but rarely do I bust out. I was winning fairly consistently playing $20 Sitngos cashingout about $100/week. Then I got lured into the NL games 1-2 blinds especially. Well I would do well for a while cashing out $100/day for a week straight then everything changed. The most notable thing that I noticed that I can't understand, or maybe I just failed to adjust to, was people calling big bets with bad cards. When I say that i mean in a NL tourney if I raise big pre-flop and the flop comes out J99 and my caller checks and i go all in or bet big that person will fold. In a NL cash game I've been called with 55 in that same situtation and 88 when the flop came out KK10 and I held AQ. So basically I'm saying it's much harder to bluff at the cash games than in tourney's especially if you're the short stack. I often sit down in a 1-2 NL game with $50 and there might be someone there with $500. To make a long story short I've gone from being up over $750 in my 6 months online with a working bankroll of $150, to being up maybe $350 with no bankroll as I'm taking a break after suffering big losses.

#6 seymour15

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 11:09 AM

I consistently win online. I profit well and sure I have hot and cold streaks, but am up enough that it doesn't bother me when I don't cashout for a couple of days.

#7 koolromeo

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 11:19 AM

seymour15 said:

I consistently win online. I profit well and sure I have hot and cold streaks, but am up enough that it doesn't bother me when I don't cashout  for a couple of days.
how do u win? how much do u win a week or month. im up too. but im not up enough to justify my time and expenses. tell me the strategies u use to win. thanks. dave

#8 manis

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 11:29 AM

Yes you can. I have som friends who make a living doing it. And I have been making betwen 1-2 BB/h playing mostly at Party, since I started over 2 yers ago. When I think about it I dont know anyone who doesnt make money plyaing online. At the 1/2 - 3/6 limit tables at party all you have to do is play ABC poker and you will make money. There are so many weak players making mistakes at those tables. But you will experience some brutal bad beats when so many players are chasing you.At the 5/10 tables and up it gets a litle tuffer and you haft be a litle more careful with table selection, but they are still very beatable.I dont play much NL but sometims I do it just for fun and the 25-100 tables at party are VERY soft, so many people are willing to call of their whole stack with midle pair. Maybe you should get somone to go through some of your hand histories to see if they can find some leaks.Have you read InternetTexasHoldem by Hilger?If not do it. If you have read it go back again and go through the importent parts again. It is a very good book and has many hand exampels that you can learn allot from.You should be able to make your 33$ a day playing 3 $2/4 tables for 2-3 hours a day at Party.Anyway hope some of this helps and good luck at the tables.manis*EDIT This forum really need a spell check function for us non Americans ... hope you all can read my terrible language :D

#9 BPV

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 01:35 PM

33 dollars a day seems like a reasonable amount to aim for. The one thing im curious about is going to be your play. Will you get up and leave as soon as you're up 33 dollars that day.. or will you keep playing longer figuring you can make double today? The first will take a lot of self control, the 2nd could lead you to trouble.

#10 seymour15

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 04:14 PM

koolromeo, I just play cards man. I guess you could say my only real strategy is to win. I play the higher priced games in order to avoid the fish, then I try to play smart, sound poker.

#11 JMHeel

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 06:18 PM

No matter where or how much you are playing I'd definately recommend keeping close track of your winnings using http://www.pokercharts.com/I've found out some very interesting statistics about my play, winning rate/hour, etc. Just thought I'd throw it out there for anyone who hasn't seen the service (it's free by the way)JMHeel

#12 ddudley

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 07:08 PM

JMHeel said:

No matter where or how much you are playing I'd definately recommend keeping close track of your winnings using http://www.pokercharts.com/I've found out some very interesting statistics about my play, winning rate/hour, etc. Just thought I'd throw it out there for anyone who hasn't seen the service (it's free by the way)JMHeel
That looks pretty sweet. I think I'm gonna sign up and give it a try. Been doing it through Excel so far but it's limited. Like, it's very difficult for me to determine how much I've won/lost on only tournament play.kool - Yes, it can be done. I've played for 7 months and make about $12/hour playing 3/6 and now 5/10 on Pacific Poker over about 800 hours.BTW - playing to only make a certain amount of money per day will kill you. I tried that mentality for about a month and did very, very bad. My deviation went way down which was good but my income also when way down. I was playing to barely make money. To make your 1-2 big bets per hour, you have to take full advantage when things are going good.
-Dud

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To seize everything you ever wanted-In One moment
Would you capture it or just let it slip?"

#13 ChaoPlayaz

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 07:37 PM

I use pokercharts for my live play, but pokertracker is much better for online play.Pokertracker costs... around $60 i think (bought it a long time ago), but it is worth it, you can get a free 1000 hand trial and see what I mean

#14 ddudley

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Posted 12 December 2004 - 08:13 PM

ChaoPlayaz said:

I use pokercharts for my live play, but pokertracker is much better for online play.Pokertracker costs... around $60 i think (bought it a long time ago), but it is worth it, you can get a free 1000 hand trial and see what I mean
Unfortunately, last time I checked PokerTracker was not compatible with Pacific Poker. Since I play 90% of my online poker at Pacific, I don't think it would do me much good.
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Would you capture it or just let it slip?"

#15 314HxC

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Posted 13 December 2004 - 12:01 AM

Like other responses, I have little experience in online cash games because I prefer the tournament structure, but I think your best bet against online players is to be observant of what the other players do. So many of the "fish" that you refer to think if they have suited 5-6 is way better then something like K-J off. Use your basic poker knowledge and just feel out the other players. If you have A-K preflop and raise. Then the flop comes something like 5-4-8. Don't rule out someone hitting a monster because there are a lot of inexperienced players online who will call every time just to gamble to the flop.p.s. Anyone who says that they win 1500 a week with no cold streaks either hasn't played long, or is a lier.
Everyone on the internet lies to me.

#16 rkard

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:39 AM

The simple answer is yes.People make in excess of 30k a month playing full time. It's a difficult road to become a successful player though. Setting a money goal per day / month is not a great idea however. As Daniel said once, (if you're good enough) play the hours and the money will come (in varied amounts! :) )Some days are good some are bad. Personally, if I hit pots which takes me above $500 for the day (to think that I started off on a free $10 signup bonus) I quit, go and read a poker book or do something away from poker :)That's the good thing about online poker, you can hit n run and disappear hehe. Of course, If I feel like playing more I play on regardless if the cards go cold. If I'm not winning pots im getting the consolation of the rakeback at 25%. Don't see any casinos handing out 25% rakeback now :D
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#17 BadVoodoo

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:55 AM

It's certainly possible, I've averaged 10k a month in 2004. The long version is more complicated. For me it's been a combination of a # of things that makes it work from using stat tracking apps, analyzing my play by posting in forums like 2+2, careful money management (keeping the bankroll at the requisite size) and extensive note taking on my opponents. I exclusively play NL cash games on a variety of sites, UB, Party, Stars & prima. I multitable 2-4 tables depending on how focused I am and this nets me about 12-14k hands a week. This is pretty crucial since even over a seemingly large stretch of hand as 5k variance plays a MASSIVE role. I think the biggest problem that a lot of otherwise skilled players have is they simply don't adjust their style based on who their opponent is due to the faceless nature of online play, ie they push all in in NL with a 3rd nut hand in a small pot against a total rock. This is a losing play since a rock won't call you with a worse hand but will call with something that beats you. The same play is a big winner against a calling station who will call with a poor draw that isn't getting pot odds. Too many people mutlitable and just try to play their own game and the #'s when playing the player is just as important to success, even more so in the NL games I play. The other thing from your post that stands out is this. Ignore results from anyone who is talking about their 1200 week wins with a 1400 bankroll, they just had a good week. Most people lose at poker and a majority of them lie about doing so. To win that ammount with that size of bankroll, they are playing stakes where they can go bust playing well with a non exceptional run of bad cards and those runs happen to EVERYONE at one time. There will be times when for a week or two straight you will just get shelled by beats or being dealt numerous very good but 2nd best hands. (See Doyle admitting he lost the most he's ever lost in 1 month on a PSI broadcast, it's educational to say the least) How well you continue to play in those circumstances is critical. If you are serious about the non-poker technical factors that can make someone a winning player both online and in person, read Rolf Slotbloom in the cardplayer.com archives and see if you are applying these online as well as in person. I suspect you aren't either paying close enough attention to the other players' styles online or you just aren't that focused on the game due to distractions.BadVoodoo

#18 eric1971

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:50 PM

It is too early in my online poker career to say whether I win consistently or not, but in 4 months, I have built up my bankroll (from $50) enough to play 5-10. Personally, I would avoid no-limit cash games unless you have a huge bank role to absorb the large swings. (And the mental toughness.) If you must play no-limit, start with the $5 SNGs. That is how I started.

#19 Suited_Up

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 12:57 PM

eric1971 said:

It is too early in my online poker career to say whether I win consistently or not, but in 4 months, I have built up my bank role (from $50) enough to play 5-10. Personally, I would avoid no-limit cash games unless you have a huge bank role to absorb the large swings. (And the mental toughness.) If you must play no-limit, start with the $5 SNGs. That is how I started.
I just started to play the Pot Limit cash games, and I do like those alot, but I make sure to pick a table with everyone close to or below the buy in... to try to avoid some of those huge swings. Doesn't work all the time.... I've done well once, left up a little another time, and lost $20 3 other times... so you may be right, but I do enjoy it more than the limit games, because even if you're up against one person, it's possible to double up (but also go broke).
-Kurt

#20 rkard

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 02:21 AM

eric1971 said:

It is too early in my online poker career to say whether I win consistently or not, but in 4 months, I have built up my bank role (from $50) enough to play 5-10. Personally, I would avoid no-limit cash games unless you have a huge bank role to absorb the large swings. (And the mental toughness.) If you must play no-limit, start with the $5 SNGs. That is how I started.
I'd just recommend playing the $25 max buyin NL 6 max games at party.The buyin is for .25/.5 normally it's $50 but party has half max buyins so if you lose a buyin you're not losing a fortune. I think a fine guideline is to have 7x-10x the buyin (of standard maximum buyins) so $500 for the $25 at party. That said back when I played those stakes I was only on $200 but even then I was an educated player.I play NL, PL and limit, mostly the former two. Yes, there are swings, but there are swings in fixed too so, as long as you're within bankroll guidelines and of sound mind you should learn how to cope with it. Beware though, if you genuinely can't find enough courage / heart to play No Limit you should just stick to fixed. Try to play at least a thousand hands before you let NL scare you off. Also, find a reason for it being "scary" and try to solve it.
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